Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If assured that hiring Williams to be head coach (and only head coach) would mean continuity in terms of keeping key assistants, same philosophy on both sides of the ball, and so on then yeah I think Williams is the best coach for this team. If you're asking is the most skilled head coach, then no I don't think he is. If I'm hiring a coach that's not from this organization then Wiliams is not my first choice, probably not even my second or third. But he is, and that shouldn't be ignored.

Ideally a head coach would have been selected by now, but he hasn't been. And again, while I don't think Fassel is the best choice, I don't think he's a horrible selection (if he were to bring in Billick as his OC then we might have an issue) and I, quite honestly, think people here are being idiots for panicking and saying shit like "I'm going to sell all my Redskins stuff."

So many have wanted Snyder to be "patient" for years now, and it's pretty pathetic that "knowledgeable fans" can't seem to do the same.

I agree with the "freak out" stuff. But let's just assume the potential coach in question wasn't Fassel. Let's say it was Cowher. Everyone's tone around here would probably be a lot different. Fassel didn't exactly leave the league on a good note. In '06 he was fired mid-season by the Ravens, who proceeded to go 9-1 after he left. I just wonder what's so great about Fassel in Danny's eyes. Is it solely his skill at QB development? Of late he's unsuccessfully interviewed for a few coordinator positions (most recently OC in KC), but suddenly he's numero uno for the Skins? For me, the frustration lies in not understanding the decision making process. And hearing other league sources refer to us as a "laughing stock" is no fun.

[birdz4gibbs]

Originally Posted by redsk1

It's not so much about pleasing the players, it's about hiring a strong coach that has the potential to be a coach for a long period of time. IMO that's not Fassel, it is GW. And if not GW, than find someone better than JF.

i,m there also..if it aint gregg then find someone who will make a name for himself "long term".

do the right thing for the skins organization and it,s players...
1.4 billion for this

[dgack]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I, quite honestly, think people here are being idiots for panicking and saying shit like "I'm going to sell all my Redskins stuff."

So many have wanted Snyder to be "patient" for years now, and it's pretty pathetic that "knowledgeable fans" can't seem to do the same.

Of course, anybody who's talking like that has issues, but it also again speaks to the desire of a lot of people for stability, professionalism and class, and I don't see how anyone can NOT see the change in Snyder and the organization in the weeks since Joe resigned.

I think what a lot of us had hoped is that Snyder had learned more from Joe about leadership and how to be a good citizen as well as a winner. The jury is still out and he may yet prove that he has, but I don't think it's surprising that fans are feeling flashbacks to the days of early Snyder.

I've never been a huge Danny-basher (okay, the Spurrier thing notwithstanding), because unlike a lot of owners (*cough BIDWELLS *cough), he actually puts his money where his mouth is and tries to improve the team. But I'm starting to realize that his team is really a reflection of his ownership style. Inconsistent and frankly, middle-of-the-road.

Wilbon got it right that we're probably a safe bet for an 8-8 team at any given season right now, and I think Snyder's a safe bet for a pretty average owner, in terms of his understanding of what it takes to build a winning franchise and keep it running. He's no Bidwell or Ford, but he's no Rooney or Bob Kraft, either.

[SmootSmack]

I'm still hoping it's Williams with Schwartz as his top lieutenant. But the point is why do you need to understand the decision making process? Especially why now when the decision is not even made. Did Steelers fans understand the decision making process of hiring Tomlin, and not Grimm or Whisenhunt?

We all want the steak, but is it really so important that we know how the cow was slaughtered?

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm still hoping it's Williams with Schwartz as his top lieutenant. But the point is why do you need to understand the decision making process? Especially why now when the decision is not even made. Did Steelers fans understand the decision making process of hiring Tomlin, and not Grimm or Whisenhunt?

We all want the steak, but is it really so important that we know how the cow was slaughtered?

it is if you're Kosher

[dgack]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm still hoping it's Williams with Schwartz as his top lieutenant. But the point is why do you need to understand the decision making process? Especially why now when the decision is not even made. Did Steelers fans understand the decision making process of hiring Tomlin, and not Grimm or Whisenhunt?

We all want the steak, but is it really so important that we know how the cow was slaughtered?

I'm sure some Steelers fans were initially unhappy with Tomlin, but largely it was a non-issue. Why?

Because Steelers fans know that unlike Snyder, the Rooneys value stability and loyalty, and return the favor to their coaches and players. I mean, I could be wrong here, but I don't recall any ex-Steelers having gone through the kind of debacles that we've had here with coaches and players (Coles, Arrington, Arch, Lloyd, etc.)

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The end does not justify the means. The process IS news, it IS being reported, and people ARE hearing about things, rumors or not, and it all leaves a bad taste in your mouth about the man who owns your beloved football team.

At this point, regardless of what decision Snyder makes, it appears that he is still the meddler he always was, and that damage has been done. Right or wrong, if he had chosen to continue with the current staff, I believe he would have earned a lot of praise from fans, media, and players alike.

But he doesn't seem to care about any of that. It seems like he wants a ring, and he doesn't care what he has to do to get one.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

One note on that - look at some of the most successful QB's over the past decade, and they spent their formative years with the same offensive guru:

Tom Brady (Charlie Weis): 2000-2004
Brett Favre (Mike Holmgren): 1992-1998
Peyton Manning (Tom Moore): 1998-Present
Donovan McNabb (Andy Reid): 1999-Present

The Saunders system has worked everywhere else he has been, but we knew that there was a 2 year learning curve based on past results. I was really hoping Al Saunders would be able to work with Campbell for an extended period. Changing the OC every two years just kills offensive stability and chemistry. I guess that change for changes sake is embedded in The Danny's DNA, and he will never learn.

I think you are looking at that backwards. The reason all those coaches held job/got promoted is because (and Reid is the exception to this rule) they were coaching all-time great quarterbacks. The results were excellent (because of the Quarterback), so the need for coaching upheaval was subdued.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think you are looking at that backwards. The reason all those coaches held job/got promoted is because (and Reid is the exception to this rule) they were coaching all-time great quarterbacks. The results were excellent (because of the Quarterback), so the need for coaching upheaval was subdued.

Are there counterexamples of great QB's who have flourished with a number of different offensive coordinators? Say, from attrition due to promotion?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm still hoping it's Williams with Schwartz as his top lieutenant. But the point is why do you need to understand the decision making process? Especially why now when the decision is not even made. Did Steelers fans understand the decision making process of hiring Tomlin, and not Grimm or Whisenhunt?

We all want the steak, but is it really so important that we know how the cow was slaughtered?

I agree with the argument that "continuity" is a bit overrated b/c players obviously want as little change as possible after a solid season. I don't need to understand every decision making process, but I'd like to know what's so great about Fassel as it relates to the Redskins.

Tomlin was an active coach in the league and an excellent coordinator when he was hired by Pitt. Fassel was fired a year and a half ago and hasn't returned. I understand what you're getting at, but this situation is a little different.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm still hoping it's Williams with Schwartz as his top lieutenant. But the point is why do you need to understand the decision making process? Especially why now when the decision is not even made. Did Steelers fans understand the decision making process of hiring Tomlin, and not Grimm or Whisenhunt?

We all want the steak, but is it really so important that we know how the cow was slaughtered?

It's not so much the process that I think has people upset right now. The fact that this has drawn the attention of outsiders speaks volumes about how this all is being handled. On some level, I feel as though he's being a bit insensitive to what the franchise and the fans have gone through this seaon. From Taylor's death, to the injuries, the up and down season, to the unexpected and abrupt departure of Joe Gibbs.

It's certainly within Dan Snyder's rights to interview as many candidates he deems appropriate, but I'm getting the feeling that all he's thinking about here is Dan Snyder. Not the Redskins, not the fans. Sure he has to do his "due dilligence" or whatever. It's within his rights and responsibility as an owner.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that this team and city need some closure on this. I think by dragging this out, like many feel he is indeed doing, he's not allowing us to collectively get closure on a somewhat sensitive matter - replacing a coaching legend.

[SmootSmack]

1. Fassel has had success as a head coach, Williams has not
2. Fassel has had success developing QBs, Williams has not
3. Fassel is looking to get back into coaching and his demands are probably lower than Williams (guessing here)

But the first two are the two main reasons in support of Fassel.

[SmootSmack]

Just gonna throw this out there for the heck of it, what if Fassel takes over as HC gets rid of Saunders, but keeps Williams. How would people feel about that?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

1. Fassel has had success as a head coach, Williams has not
2. Fassel has had success developing QBs, Williams has not
3. Fassel is looking to get back into coaching and his demands are probably lower than Williams (guessing here)

But the first two are the two main reasons in support of Fassel.

just heard on 980 that they are offering the job to Fassel

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by dgack

Are there counterexamples of great QB's who have flourished with a number of different offensive coordinators? Say, from attrition due to promotion?

I can't think of one who had a bunch of different coordinators, but I can give a few examples of QBs who stayed right on their development path despite upheaval in the coaching staff:

Ben Roethlisberger (2007) Cowher/Whisenhunt-->Arians/Tomlin
Marc Bulger (2006) Martz-->Linehan
Tom Brady (2005) Weis-->McDainels
Rich Gannon (2002) Gruden-->Trestman/Callahan

Obviously, the volume of coaches getting promoted/retiring duing a period of prolonged success are slim, but it seems like talented QBs will always overcome.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think you are looking at that backwards. The reason all those coaches held job/got promoted is because (and Reid is the exception to this rule) they were coaching all-time great quarterbacks. The results were excellent (because of the Quarterback), so the need for coaching upheaval was subdued.

GTripp, I'm often on the same page with you, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this. You can perhaps say that McNabb and Manning were destined for greatness as a #2 and a #1 overall draft choice, but it certainly didn't hurt their progression being in the same system with the same offensive coach, from Day One. Indy DID fire Jim Mora, but did the smart thing by retaining Tom Moore as OC to continue Manning's development. And BTW, NOBODY saw or predicted all-time greatness for Favre or Brady when they first came into the league - they were afterthoughts. Favre was the #3 QB in Atlanta, and wasn't even the starter in GB when Holmgren traded for him. Brady was a so-so QB in college picked late in the draft. I would argue that their professional growth was accelerated by staying in one system under one offensive coach during their early development as QBs. The argument could be extended to others (Troy Aikman w/Norv Turner, Marc Bulger w/Mike Martz, Matt Hasselbeck w/Holmgren, etc.). It's only natural that a young QB would be most comfortable given the chance to progress in a given system for more than a year or two. I only wish that Jason Campbell would get that chance.