Ocho Cinco In B&G

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Rocky had bad knees even before this latest injury. I'm not sure he can ever be counted on.

Blades might be a nice find but Briggs is easily the better player right now.

Briggs and the Skins had a deal in place before the trade fell through. I'm sure there is still interest from both sides. Briggs wants out, Chicago has indicated they aren't interested in bringing him back, do the math.

The problem is that beyond Rocky McIntosh the Redskins are having some serious concerns about Marcus Washington's health. So it's not just a matter of plugging in Blades.

[Drift Reality]

I'm really sorry to be a hater but the problem with the Redskins is that our owner and his monkey boy might as well be participants in this forum because I'm sure they'd love nothing more than to give Chad Johnson a 15 million dollar signing bonus and lock him up for the next five years (or two - until they renegotiate his contract).

We currently have over 13 million in salary for 2008 locked up in 3 wide receivers - even if Lloyd is cut, the cap hit will be substantial and we are still talking about a big chunk of our cap being devoted to wide receivers.

No offense to all the people who are getting a hard-on for #85 but are you insane?

I don't understand why we are talking about Briggs and Chad Johnson when year after year, the teams that are winning super bowls are following such a different personnel model than the Redskins.

We are talking about teams that draft well, sign free agents for below market value, cultivate their own talent.

Why are we still talking about signing two guys who we are going to pay above market for - and in the process, sacrifice depth at other - more vital - positions.

Personally, I would rather use the finances to build depth on our lines and focus on the draft. Let someone else blow up their cap to sign this over-priced free agent.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

I'm really sorry to be a hater but the problem with the Redskins is that our owner and his monkey boy might as well be participants in this forum because I'm sure they'd love nothing more than to give Chad Johnson a 15 million dollar signing bonus and lock him up for the next five years (or two - until they renegotiate his contract).

We currently have over 13 million in salary for 2008 locked up in 3 wide receivers - even if Lloyd is cut, the cap hit will be substantial and we are still talking about a big chunk of our cap being devoted to wide receivers.

No offense to all the people who are getting a hard-on for #85 but are you insane?

I don't understand why we are talking about Briggs and Chad Johnson when year after year, the teams that are winning super bowls are following such a different personnel model than the Redskins.

We are talking about teams that draft well, sign free agents for below market value, cultivate their own talent.

Why are we still talking about signing two guys who we are going to pay above market for - and in the process, sacrifice depth at other - more vital - positions.

Personally, I would rather use the finances to build depth on our lines and focus on the draft. Let someone else blow up their cap to sign this over-priced free agent.

THANK YOU. See, what we should do is let Blades play the weak side until Rocky comes back. The guy was a tackling machine in college. Put his ass out there and let him learn. You need to have some starters that make 500k to balance out the team. Unless you're the Pats, and you already have most of the pieces in place, chasing high priced FA's is such a waste of time. Look at SF last year? They signed a bunch of guys and they still sucked. You can't go around trying to buy a team. Nate Clemons got big $. They signed a guy from NE and Balt, can't remember their names. Did it help them? Nope. IT DOESN'T WORK. You don't see Pittsburgh chasing around these guys. That's cause they draft and have guys waiting in the pipeline. When is our FO going to learn?

[ingibbswetrust]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

I'm really sorry to be a hater but the problem with the Redskins is that our owner and his monkey boy might as well be participants in this forum because I'm sure they'd love nothing more than to give Chad Johnson a 15 million dollar signing bonus and lock him up for the next five years (or two - until they renegotiate his contract).

We currently have over 13 million in salary for 2008 locked up in 3 wide receivers - even if Lloyd is cut, the cap hit will be substantial and we are still talking about a big chunk of our cap being devoted to wide receivers.

No offense to all the people who are getting a hard-on for #85 but are you insane?

I don't understand why we are talking about Briggs and Chad Johnson when year after year, the teams that are winning super bowls are following such a different personnel model than the Redskins.

We are talking about teams that draft well, sign free agents for below market value, cultivate their own talent.

Why are we still talking about signing two guys who we are going to pay above market for - and in the process, sacrifice depth at other - more vital - positions.

Personally, I would rather use the finances to build depth on our lines and focus on the draft. Let someone else blow up their cap to sign this over-priced free agent.

I agree that we should be building through the draft (and that we don't need Briggs) but at a position like WR, I really feel this is a trade worth making. I've been struggling with this lately and I keep coming back to the cowboys getting TO and the lions drafting flop after flop at the WR position. The cowboys took a huge gamble on bringing TO to town and it has put their offense over the top. Just look at them without him over the last few games of this season, they were an average offense at best and with him they are 2nd best offense the NFL.

We're mediocore as is on the offensive side of the ball and I really feel if we could have CJ open up the vertical game and take double teams off of Santana it would open up things for Moss, ARE in the slot and cooley over the middle (and of course the run game).

Depending on what we have to give up, I think this is a risk worth taking. Even if we were to draft a WR, that's a huge risk when we could draft a dependable linemen. This would obviously be an expensive trade for us but at least we know what we're getting in return (which we didn't really with B. Lloyd) , which is a bonafide game changing consistent WR for the next 5 years.

That's my vote. HAIL.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by ingibbswetrust

I agree that we should be building through the draft (and that we don't need Briggs) but at a position like WR, I really feel this is a trade worth making. I've been struggling with this lately and I keep coming back to the cowboys getting TO and the lions drafting flop after flop at the WR position. The cowboys took a huge gamble on bringing TO to town and it has put their offense over the top. Just look at them without him over the last few games of this season, they were an average offense at best and with him they are 2nd best offense the NFL.

We're mediocore as is on the offensive side of the ball and I really feel if we could have CJ open up the vertical game and take double teams off of Santana it would open up things for Moss, ARE in the slot and cooley over the middle (and of course the run game).

Depending on what we have to give up, I think this is a risk worth taking. Even if we were to draft a WR, that's a huge risk when we could draft a dependable linemen. This would obviously be an expensive trade for us but at least we know what we're getting in return (which we didn't really with B. Lloyd) , which is a bonafide game changing consistent WR for the next 5 years.

That's my vote. HAIL.

The main point is though that the ability to trade for Chad Johnson directly conflicts with the ability to draft linemen.

A trade makes sense for the Redskins because this is the first year in a long time we won't be able to outbid the opposition on the FA market. With the cap room we have, we can still offer a fair market deal, but another team would find it no issue at all to match or exceed our deal, because they aren't limited by the cap. That's why we have interest in Johnson.

However, that still doesn't mean that we can aquire him cheaply. The price tag the Bengals want is a first and a third, or two seconds. Let's say that we can negotiate a lower price tag: say a second now, and a third next year. Well, we still have to address the following positions in the next two years: CB, C, G, DE, DT, but now we have one fewer first day pick to do it with.

Knowing this franchise, that likely means we neglect the offensive line another year, and our offense declines, despite Johnson's presence. Though we would still be competitive, we've made no net gain in 2008, and are down a 3rd round pick in 2009.

And that's all assuming we negotiate a more reasonable price...not something Danny's exactly known for doing.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The main point is though that the ability to trade for Chad Johnson directly conflicts with the ability to draft linemen.

A trade makes sense for the Redskins because this is the first year in a long time we won't be able to outbid the opposition on the FA market. With the cap room we have, we can still offer a fair market deal, but another team would find it no issue at all to match or exceed our deal, because they aren't limited by the cap. That's why we have interest in Johnson.

However, that still doesn't mean that we can aquire him cheaply. The price tag the Bengals want is a first and a third, or two seconds. Let's say that we can negotiate a lower price tag: say a second now, and a third next year. Well, we still have to address the following positions in the next two years: CB, C, G, DE, DT, but now we have one fewer first day pick to do it with.

Knowing this franchise, that likely means we neglect the offensive line another year, and our offense declines, despite Johnson's presence. Though we would still be competitive, we've made no net gain in 2008, and are down a 3rd round pick in 2009.

And that's all assuming we negotiate a more reasonable price...not something Danny's exactly known for doing.

I hope like hell we don't neglect the O-line.

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by ingibbswetrust

I agree that we should be building through the draft (and that we don't need Briggs) but at a position like WR, I really feel this is a trade worth making. I've been struggling with this lately and I keep coming back to the cowboys getting TO and the lions drafting flop after flop at the WR position. The cowboys took a huge gamble on bringing TO to town and it has put their offense over the top. Just look at them without him over the last few games of this season, they were an average offense at best and with him they are 2nd best offense the NFL.

We're mediocore as is on the offensive side of the ball and I really feel if we could have CJ open up the vertical game and take double teams off of Santana it would open up things for Moss, ARE in the slot and cooley over the middle (and of course the run game).

Depending on what we have to give up, I think this is a risk worth taking. Even if we were to draft a WR, that's a huge risk when we could draft a dependable linemen. This would obviously be an expensive trade for us but at least we know what we're getting in return (which we didn't really with B. Lloyd) , which is a bonafide game changing consistent WR for the next 5 years.

That's my vote. HAIL.

I think the reason we are mediocre on offense has more to do with continuity and the player's comfort in a system.

I think everyone would agree that once Collins stepped in last year and our line started to gel - then suddenly our offense started moving up and down the field.

Going out and getting a Chad Johnson isn't suddenly the magic solution to all our systemic problems - especially when in my opinion, if we want to point to a weakness, I would point to our offensive line last year after the key injuries.

Great teams are built from the lines out - there is no point in having a dynamic receiver in here if our QB is on his back and our RBs are getting stuffed at the line.

Let me ask this question: Would you rather have Chad Johnson at $8 million per year, or find a way to bring in a couple of solid O-line guys and maybe a D-line guy?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

Going out and getting a Chad Johnson isn't suddenly the magic solution to all our systemic problems - especially when in my opinion, if we want to point to a weakness, I would point to our offensive line last year after the key injuries.

This is the best point in the thread. If we go out and acquire Johnson, we improve just a tiny, tiny bit--but the oppertunity costs far outweigh any potential benefit.

If Johnson has a career year here, we improve maybe a whole win in the standings over last year, but 1) its a bad idea to make a trade assuming a guy will be even better than he's proven (**Lloyd**), and 2) we could improve more investing picks and money elsewhere.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This is the best point in the thread. If we go out and acquire Johnson, we improve just a tiny, tiny bit--but the oppertunity costs far outweigh any potential benefit.

If Johnson has a career year here, we improve maybe a whole win in the standings over last year, but 1) its a bad idea to make a trade assuming a guy will be even better than he's proven (**Lloyd**), and 2) we could improve more investing picks and money elsewhere.

got any proof of that?

we've got good starters on OL, and depth takes time to improve, so new linemen aren't going to come in and make an immediate impact (until at least 6 games in when they learn how the other guys play), but a WR could immediately. TO gave philly and dallas a LOT more than a 1 win advantage, and so did randy moss (both in minn and NE... oak didn't have a QB that could take advantage of him).

the only two spots where you could get a bigger immediate impact would be DE (which is still rare for a strong 1st year contribution) or getting phillips at safety.

[Monkeydad]

"Chad Johnson is due a $250,000 workout bonus on March 24.
If Chad's not in Cincinnati then, we'll know he's serious about holding out.

Agent Drew Rosenhaus has said Johnson won't skip important offseason work, but forfeiting $250,000 would make an early statement."


Source: Cincinnati Enquirer

[MTK]

I'm not totally against trading for CJ, but I'm not thrilled about it either, I guess I'm on the fence with him. I don't agree with the way he's handled himself lately, it's obvious he really wants out of Cincy but he's gone a bit overboard with his behavior.

My thinking is this, we need a true #1 WR. Moss is not the guy. Drafted WRs typically do not make an instant impact and can sometimes take a few years to develop, and this draft doesn't have any WRs that really excite anyone. A WR is a position that I think is worth trading for. Hell I think it's the Bengals that need to worry about getting fair value for him. He's definitely one of the top WRs in the game and has 6 straight seasons of 1000+.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Hell I think it's the Bengals that need to worry about getting fair value for him. He's definitely one of the top WRs in the game and has 6 straight seasons of 1000+.

I agree with you that Moss isn't a true # 1, but Seattle doesn't and hasn't had a true #1 and their offensive production has been pretty good (2007 - top third, 2006 - mid third, 2005 - top third). In the WCO a True #1 is not a necessity (Seattle, Green Bay, Eagles). Obviously we'd love to have a player of CJ's caliber, but do we NEED him. I think we really have more urgent needs that could be addressed at a more reasonable price. Also having to give up the high draft picks to get him makes me say no.

In addition to Briggs, I would target Wahle from the Panthers and/or Shelton from Miami to help the OL. If we can get Wahle, Kendall can move to back-up. If Shelton comes in (probably a long shot) we can release Wade, have insurance if Jansen is injured again, and give Heyer a bit more time to develop without being "thrown to the wolves" again (although he did well this year). At WR I think we would be better off going after Bryant Johnson of the Cards or DJ Hackett. They will have a smaller contract than CJ and both are in their mid-20s and could develop into a #1.

[MTK]

NE went out and spent money on FA's last year. Yeah they came up one game short but I wouldn't be too upset with 18 wins.

[QBall]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

NE went out and spent money on FA's last year. Yeah they came up one game short but I wouldn't be too upset with 18 wins.

Um if your only loss is in the Super Bowl? Not really!!

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

NE went out and spent money on FA's last year. Yeah they came up one game short but I wouldn't be too upset with 18 wins.

Yeah but they already had the pieces in place. We don't. They're already a SB contending team. I don't think we're on that level yet. When and if we get there, that's when you go out and get a Chad Johnson or a Lance Briggs. IMO you get the big FA's when you're a player or two away. I just don't think we're that type of team yet. That's where teams like us and SF don't get it and NE does.