Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

if true, that's cool. I've only read the last few pages of this thread cause it's huge, so I hope this hasn't been said already. This is what I hope the truth is:

Danny & Vinny are allowing the media to carry this story to drive up the price if the Iggles & Boys become serious.

One way this could've developed is that Danny might've said to the bengals "suppose I offer you 2 picks, 1st & 3rd" but not actually offerred it. Then the bengals said no, it's leaked to the papers as an "offer" but in reality was just part of a discussion. It happens all the time in negotiations that someone will throw an idea out to gauge the price, that doesn't mean a tangible offer is made.

Another possibility is that the Skins knew the bengals would rebuff the offer due to the cap hit, so they throw it out now, draft a wr, then after June 1 if the bengals are willing to deal, they barter the price down based on the fact that they drafted a wr, the cap hit is lower & that CJ's value has declined to us.

Unfortunately, it looks like from what we've heard over several months that the Skins are interested in CJ. I don't doubt that he is still a major impact player, but the cost is high & he's a loose cannon. I also hope cincy sticks to its word & lets him hold out, then fines him if he comes back.

I think that is a bit too 'cloak and dagger', but nonetheless the result is the same. The Redskins effectively set the market for Chad Johnson and if the Eagles or Cowboys did want to make a play they would have to come bigger than the offer reportedly on the table from the Redskins. If nothing else it might preclude those other teams from making a strong play, or at worst force them to give up, say, a 1st and 2nd in this years draft (as Pat Kirwan has suggested on NFL.com). I said something to that effect on like page 7 http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locke...tml#post441544, but you said it clearer (but I don't think it was a fake offer, the offer was real, but the result was the same).

[KB24]

I'm a results-oriented person. Our strategy of giving up draft picks to acquire big stars has netted us one playoff win since 2000. All I'm saying is that, maybe instead on relying on other teams' stars and sacrificing draft picks, potential future solid performers and salary-cap space, we should try taking all these draft picks we have and using them on young players who, if they aren't starting come September 4, will serve as adequate back-ups upon whom we can rely instead of having to go to the waiver wire or switch players from their natural positions, a la Todd Wade and Lorenzo Alexander.

If we acquire Chad Johnson and he leads us to a Super Bowl, I'll be the first to eat my words. I'm just leery of seeing the Skins once again sink so much into one player when we're not one player away from being a serious Super Bowl contender.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by KB24

I'm a results-oriented person. Our strategy of giving up draft picks to acquire big stars has netted us one playoff win since 2000. All I'm saying is that, maybe instead on relying on other teams' stars and sacrificing draft picks, potential future solid performers and salary-cap space, we should try taking all these draft picks we have and using them on young players who, if they aren't starting come September 4, will serve as adequate back-ups upon whom we can rely instead of having to go to the waiver wire or switch players from their natural positions, a la Todd Wade and Lorenzo Alexander.

If we acquire Chad Johnson and he leads us to a Super Bowl, I'll be the first to eat my words. I'm just leery of seeing the Skins once again sink so much into one player when we're not one player away from being a serious Super Bowl contender.

Fair point, and one of the better posts you've made on this thread. Lacking in hyperbole and I can certainly agree with your logic here. Now can we close this thread? It is a vortex from which I cannot escape!

[KB24]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Fair point, and one of the better posts you've made on this thread. Lacking in hyperbole and I can certainly agree with your logic here. Now can we close this thread? It is a vortex from which I cannot escape!

Sure. I got a headache. At least we can agree on one thing: Go Skins!

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by KB24

I'm a results-oriented person. Our strategy of giving up draft picks to acquire big stars has netted us one playoff win since 2000. All I'm saying is that, maybe instead on relying on other teams' stars and sacrificing draft picks, potential future solid performers and salary-cap space, we should try taking all these draft picks we have and using them on young players who, if they aren't starting come September 4, will serve as adequate back-ups upon whom we can rely instead of having to go to the waiver wire or switch players from their natural positions, a la Todd Wade and Lorenzo Alexander.

If we acquire Chad Johnson and he leads us to a Super Bowl, I'll be the first to eat my words. I'm just leery of seeing the Skins once again sink so much into one player when we're not one player away from being a serious Super Bowl contender.

since 2000, what perennial top-5 in his position pro-bowler have the skins acquired?

portis is the only one i think you can put in that category and thats a bit of a stretch. the fact that we gave big time money to could be good players in lloyd n arch (admitted mistakes) shouldnt keep us from not giving big time money for a big time player. im just confused on what "big stars" weve acquired since 2000 that your referring to. its not the money the skins were spending that was our problem but the overpaying for mediocre talent that we got in return imo.

sorry for the double post.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

if true, that's cool. I've only read the last few pages of this thread cause it's huge, so I hope this hasn't been said already. This is what I hope the truth is:

Danny & Vinny are allowing the media to carry this story to drive up the price if the Iggles & Boys become serious.

One way this could've developed is that Danny might've said to the bengals "suppose I offer you 2 picks, 1st & 3rd" but not actually offerred it. Then the bengals said no, it's leaked to the papers as an "offer" but in reality was just part of a discussion. It happens all the time in negotiations that someone will throw an idea out to gauge the price, that doesn't mean a tangible offer is made.

Another possibility is that the Skins knew the bengals would rebuff the offer due to the cap hit, so they throw it out now, draft a wr, then after June 1 if the bengals are willing to deal, they barter the price down based on the fact that they drafted a wr, the cap hit is lower & that CJ's value has declined to us.

Unfortunately, it looks like from what we've heard over several months that the Skins are interested in CJ. I don't doubt that he is still a major impact player, but the cost is high & he's a loose cannon. I also hope cincy sticks to its word & lets him hold out, then fines him if he comes back.

i dont see how us drafting a wr would make the bengals more inclined to trade him to us for less than what we have already reportedly offered considering there are rumored to be other teams interested as well. but i do agree with you and all the "experts" who say the bengals might be more willing to deal after april when CJ's cap hit would be lower.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

i dont see how us drafting a wr would make the bengals more inclined to trade him to us for less than what we have already reportedly offered considering there are rumored to be other teams interested as well. but i do agree with you and all the "experts" who say the bengals might be more willing to deal after april when CJ's cap hit would be lower.

I thought the cap hit would be lower after June 1?

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by KB24

I thought the cap hit would be lower after June 1?

sorry, after june the bengals would be more willing to trade not april , you are correct. but cant the bengals designate him now as a june 1 cut and prorate it or do they have to wait till June?

[RedskinPete]

Originally Posted by Vulta121

ESPN - Sources: Skins offer '08 first-rounder, '09 pick for Johnson; Cincy says no - NFL

This is the best thing that has happened to us in a while. I personally love Chad, but I love the Skins more and we need to keep our picks

I love to get him as well but the price was to high and we have so many other needs!

[Skinny Tee]

I think everyone is going to have to agree to disagree at this point.

CJ is obviously not going to become a Redskin this year and it looks like we'll be using all of our draft picks on college talent.

Anybody have ideas on who to draft with the first this year?

[RedskinPete]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

I think everyone is going to have to agree to disagree at this point.

CJ is obviously not going to become a Redskin this year and it looks like we'll be using all of our draft picks on college talent.

Anybody have ideas on who to draft with the first this year?

I get the feeling we are going to trade down to get more picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds...but that is just a feeling!

[Dirtbag59]

I wonder if the team drafts Jordy Nelson with their first pick? Call me crazy but Vinny and Dan always manage to find a way to surprise us.

Also I think another situation to watch very closely is the Jason Taylor saga. If you remember Parcells said that the only way Taylor doesn't play for the Dolpins is if he retires. In turn if they trade him then I would expect to see the Bengals observe the possible move from a PR standpoint, since this would give them a chance to see how going back on their word will affect their reputation as sturn negotiators.

Also, apparently the Dolphins are interested in Joe Flacco which could make the Redskins an ideal spot for teams to trade up since the Dolphins are trying to move right into our neighborhood. Then again I don't really remember ever hearing about Parcells trading picks to move up but in that case I would expect to see the trade look like so.

"There are four players of particular interest to the Dolphins, according to the Sun-Sentinel: Florida defensive end Derrick Harvey; Auburn defensive end Quentin Groves; Michigan quarterback Chad Henne; and Delaware quarterback Joe Flacco."

Dolphins get:
Redskins 1-21
Redskins 3-21

Redskins get:
Dolphins 2-1
Dolphins 3-1

Redskins would be able to bring in a draft class with Jordy Nelson, Duane Brown, and Charles Godfrey. Of course they would have to find a productive D-Lineman with their comp pick, but I think we'll be fine as long as the LB's come to play.

[Skinny Tee]

Neverless it is going to be an interesting draft considering that there is no sure fire players that stand out as number ones at the top of the draft.

I think this draft will have some interesting surprises.

[SBXVII]

KB24I respect what your saying. I really do. All I'm trying to point out as well as several others is that we would only lose one pick this yr. #21. Then we would have 8-9 other picks to find OL,DE,DL,CB,S,WR depth. All we are saying is it's not the end of the world. Depending on how CJ does this yr yes it could turn out to be a 1st next yr. but I'm betting for them to get the 1st round pick we would have to go pretty far in the playoffs. Probably why Cincy said no go.

It's just frustrating to hear people say CJ is not worth that much when he was like the #3 WR of all last yr and in the top 10 for how many yrs? He's also a pro bowl player...you don't get there by being a problem or having good looks or good character. It's all about his play. It's also disheartening to hear about his character issues. Maybe he did punch a coach maybe he didn't. I was not there. Something happened. On the Riggo show yesterday they spoke with a Cincy sports reporter and he said he has not gotten a clear answer on that either but something did happen. If nothing else pushing and shoving, but he said it appearently was no big deal to the team. Not worthy of kicking him off a team, however he has heard nothing but fans shocked that Cincy would not take the deal. They would get another 1st rounder and knowing CJ would put up the numbers they might get the 1st next also.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

since 2000, what perennial top-5 in his position pro-bowler have the skins acquired?

portis is the only one i think you can put in that category and thats a bit of a stretch. the fact that we gave big time money to could be good players in lloyd n arch (admitted mistakes) shouldnt keep us from not giving big time money for a big time player. im just confused on what "big stars" weve acquired since 2000 that your referring to. its not the money the skins were spending that was our problem but the overpaying for mediocre talent that we got in return imo.

sorry for the double post.

LaVar Arrington, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, Jeff George (GAG!), Deion Sanders (DOUBLE-GAG!), Laveranus Coles, Santana Moss, Joe Morton and Brandon Lloyd are the ones who come to my mind. Snyder even wanted Ted Ginn, Jr., until Gregg Williams sold him on LaRon Landry.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

KB24I respect what your saying. I really do. All I'm trying to point out as well as several others is that we would only lose one pick this yr. #21. Then we would have 8-9 other picks to find OL,DE,DL,CB,S,WR depth. All we are saying is it's not the end of the world. Depending on how CJ does this yr yes it could turn out to be a 1st next yr. but I'm betting for them to get the 1st round pick we would have to go pretty far in the playoffs. Probably why Cincy said no go.

It's just frustrating to hear people say CJ is not worth that much when he was like the #3 WR of all last yr and in the top 10 for how many yrs? He's also a pro bowl player...you don't get there by being a problem or having good looks or good character. It's all about his play. It's also disheartening to hear about his character issues. Maybe he did punch a coach maybe he didn't. I was not there. Something happened. On the Riggo show yesterday they spoke with a Cincy sports reporter and he said he has not gotten a clear answer on that either but something did happen. If nothing else pushing and shoving, but he said it appearently was no big deal to the team. Not worthy of kicking him off a team, however he has heard nothing but fans shocked that Cincy would not take the deal. They would get another 1st rounder and knowing CJ would put up the numbers they might get the 1st next also.

I guess I'm just hesitant to make another trade like this for a "superstar" when that strategy in the past hasn't gotten us to the next level. And I just wonder whether it's smart to sink everything as much as we are trying to into him when he may not be able to get us to that level by himself. That's where I'm coming from with all this.