Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy

[Redskins8588]

As for advantages AWD means that the driver pretty much doenst need to do anything the car adjusts to the enviroment. You never have to put the car in or out of 4wd. You just press on the gas and if one tire slips then the system will be engaged. Most newer vehicles are set up this way. But just remember not all AWD cars are true All Wheel Drive.

4wd you can go from a 2wd car to a 4wd car and back at your liking.

[dmek25]

doesnt anyone drive american anymore?tafkas,i have a 2003 tahoe thats loaded,and has everything you talked about.i got it last year with 17,000 miles on it for 25,000.this car is the mac daddy.great in bad weather and very comfortable to ride in.buy american people,invest in THIS country.tafkas have you started yet?and how is it going?

[Redskins8588]

Are you aware that most honda's, toyota's and hyundai's are made here in america?

[Redskins8588]

Also, I have no problem with american cars once they can offer the same quality for the same price. Why would someone spend $25,000 to $30,000 for a vehicle that will be junk in 5 years? You should be able to get atleast 10 years out of a car not 5 if your lucky...

How often do you see toyota or honda offer cash back or 0% apr on there cars? Ever think that there is a reason for that? They dont have to unlike the american motor companies, toyota and honda know that they have a good product and they dont need to give consumers incentive to buy them...

[That Guy]

there's no such thing as an american car anymore. a lot of parts for EVERY car are shipped over from asia. deal with it.

[cpayne5]

Here are my recommendations -

Sedans: Accord, Camry, Subaru Legacy (AWD)
Small SUVs: RAV4 (especially 2006+), CR-V, Highlander
Midsize SUVs: 4Runner, Trailblazer

With the SUV choices, I'm assuming that they all have/are AWD/4WD and with the sedans, only the Suby is AWD.

If you plan on keeping your vehicle for a long time, buy it new. I know you take a hit on depreciation, but by buying it new you know the exact history of it. You know how it has been treated. If you're going to sell the car in 3-5 years, go with a slightly used vehicle.

In terms of quality, Japanese autos are tops. Especially ones made in Japan. You can tell if it's made in japan by seeing if the VIN starts with a J. You wouldn't think that there would be a difference, but there is. American cars are of better quality than the Europeans. American cars have taken a bum rap recently, and frankly it's not at all warranted at this point. I have never owned a korean car (hyundai/ kia), but would go out on a limb and say that they are right now what Honda/Toyota was back in the 60s/ 70s in terms of industry emergence.

The general driveline of a vehicle with either AWD or 4WD: engine->transmission->transfer case-> 2 outputs; 1 to front axle & 1 to rear

AWD vs 4WD
There really isn't a whole lot of difference here with the terms. Where the difference lies is in the implementation of the systems. Traditionally, a 4WD vehicle gives you a multimode transfer case with a lever(s), or more recently buttons or knobs, which allow you to make the switch from 2wheel drive to 4wheel drive. An all wheel drive system does not give you the ability to manually switch your vehicle to 2wd. Some all wheel drive systems do allow the driver to switch into a low range, but I doubt you really need to be concerned with that given how you're going to use the vehicle. At this point, an AWD vehicle and a vehicle with a multimode transfer case in 4wd are in basically the same state.

AWD vs 4WD w/ 4WD mode selected
Alright, here's where the fun begins. In order to split power you need an input, a "gear box", and 2 outputs. This is general idea is universal, but what happens inside of the "gear box" varies greatly. Gearbox can be used to mean a transfer case or an axle/differential combo. I'll use the generic term gearbox as they both have similar behaviors in the auto industry. A gearbox can allow three things to occur; allow outputs to spin at different speeds (open), lock the outputs together so that they spin at the same speeds (locked), and lock the outputs together so that they spin at the same speeds to a friction point (limited slip). Locked "gearboxes" give the best traction, but the least streetability (think about all four tires of a vehicle travelling the same speeds around a tight curve and the difference in distances travelled by the tires). Now, going back to AWD vs 4WD, in both scenarios, the transfer cases of a vehicle with either system will more than likely guarantee a certain ratio of power to the front and rear wheels. With a locked transfer case, the ratio will be 50/50 (unless you break something ). After the transfer case 'splits' the input, it outputs it to the axles. An axle then takes the input and splits it again in its differential, sending power to the wheels. The differential is another gearbox that can again be open, locked, or have a limited slip. So at this point, we have a transfer case and 2 differentials that can all be open. A very suprising thing can happen to an AWD vehicle with all three being open. Say three wheels have traction on pavement but the third tire is on ice with absolutely no traction. From the engine, power will go to the transfer case, pick the easiest route (to the axle with the tire on ice), then at the axle the power will pick the next easiest route (to the tire on ice), thus giving 100% of your cars power to the one and only tire with absolutely no traction. Industry realized this and designed systems to limit this scenario from happening. The first is the power ratio split guarantee in the transfer case that I mentioned earlier. This will guarantee that each axle gets a portion of the power and at least TWO wheels will spin at this point. But the two wheels can be on separate axles and each wheel still may not have traction (say the two driver side wheels are on ice and the passenger side wheels are on pavement). So, now we have vehicles with active traction control systems. These systems basically use an open differential against itself in certain situation. If you go back to the 3 open diff situation, an active TC system will "see" that the tire on ice is slipping, apply the brake (which gives this power route more resistance) and force the differential to route the power to the opposite wheel on the axle. At this point, the car will have traction and move forward. This system will also work if both tires on an axle have no traction. The system will apply the brakes to the wheels on an axle where both wheels are spinning and the power will then be routed to the opposite axle at the transfer case.

I have three vehicles with varying system that can send power to any of the 4 wheels. I have a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon which allows you to manually lock all three 'gearboxes'. This is the ultimate offroader. I have a Toyota 4Runner which allows you to lock the transfer case and also has an active traction control system that partially makes up for a lack of lockers in the axles. I also have an older truck that has a locked transfer case, locked rear axle, and an open front axle. The most streetable is the 4Runner, but it compensates for itself very well offroad. The least streetable is the truck because its rear axle is locked 100% of the time.

If I were to give you a suggestion right now, I'd have to say either a new Camry or Accord. You can't beat the quality/dependability and with a good set of winter tires, either will give you ample traction.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I agree about the Subaru Legacy. The ride is great and you'll get your AWD.

[EEich]

Hey TAFKAS... I have a Toyota Matrix AWD (in addition to the Prius). Will generally drive that in bad weather. I love it.

I used to be a Honda guy... but I think the Toyotas offer better value and style.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Hey Tafkas: I bought a 2005 GMC Denali XL about a year ago. If you can get one in your price range, I highly recommend the car based on my experiences so far. It has a great navigation system that is fully touch-screen (not all nav. systems are and the ones that are not are much more time-consuming to operate). The engine is a 5.3L V8 with 300 HP. Towing capacity (if it matters) is over 6500 lbs. The cabin is quieter and the ride is smoother than my friends' Lexus and BMW, it has more power, more features, and costs less. The drive system gives you three options: 2WD, AWD, 4WD High, 4WD Low. With the exception of going from 4WD High to 4WD Low, you can switch from one to another as you are driving (up to 60 MPH) by simply turning a switch. Other features: Leather everywhere, 2 separate memory settings (my wife is 5' tall, so this is important for us.......when she uses her remote to open the car, the seat, mirrors, climate control, and radio automatically adjust to her settings), dual zone automatic climate control, DVD player for the rear seat passengers, and a ton of other features. I really think if you look around, you could probably get a 2005 with either these features or slightly less for around the 30k mark depending on mileage.

[EEich]

Originally Posted by That Guy

there's no such thing as an american car anymore. a lot of parts for EVERY car are shipped over from asia. deal with it.

That's funny, the last 4 cars I've purchased (2 Hondas and 2 Toyotas) were all built in North America.

[dmek25]

that guy you are right about the parts,but American cars are manufactured here in the good ole USA by Americans.it hits me right in the heart to read about people complaining about the economy meanwhile driving some Subaru or honda.yes,some of these cars are manufactured here but the bottom line is someone overseas receives most of the profit.and Chevy and gmc are always offering 0% financing.this is part of the growing trade deficit that we all complain about

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by dmek25

that guy you are right about the parts,but American cars are manufactured here in the good ole USA by Americans.it hits me right in the heart to read about people complaining about the economy meanwhile driving some Subaru or honda.yes,some of these cars are manufactured here but the bottom line is someone overseas receives most of the profit.and Chevy and gmc are always offering 0% financing.this is part of the growing trade deficit that we all complain about

In the other thread, didn't you say you drive a Lexus?

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

Also, I have no problem with american cars once they can offer the same quality for the same price. Why would someone spend $25,000 to $30,000 for a vehicle that will be junk in 5 years? You should be able to get atleast 10 years out of a car not 5 if your lucky...

That's a pretty blanket statement there. You get what you pay for. If you are willing to spend the money on the better built American cars (and by American I'm talking about the big 3), you can certainly get the same value and reliabilty that you find in foreign counterparts. My parents have never purchased a foreign car in their lives and have never gotten less than 10 years out of any of their cars without any major mechanical problems. I have gone from one American car to the next for the last 13 years and have had no major problems. Saying they only last 5 years is something I commonly hear from foreign car buyers who, obviously, wouldn't really know if it was true since they are just buying foreign cars.

Maybe you've had bad luck with American cars? I don't know. But from my perspective I've not had this experience.

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

That's a pretty blanket statement there. You get what you pay for. If you are willing to spend the money on the better built American cars (and by American I'm talking about the big 3), you can certainly get the same value and reliabilty that you find in foreign counterparts. My parents have never purchased a foreign car in their lives and have never gotten less than 10 years out of any of their cars without any major mechanical problems. I have gone from one American car to the next for the last 13 years and have had no major problems. Saying they only last 5 years is something I commonly hear from foreign car buyers who, obviously, wouldn't really know if it was true since they are just buying foreign cars.

Maybe you've had bad luck with American cars? I don't know. But from my perspective I've not had this experience.

I totally agree.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

I totally agree.

Thanks cpayne. I also echo what you said about Europeans being the least reliable right now. A friend of mine got a BMW 3 Series with AWD about 3 years ago. He had nothing but problems with it. He's now waiting on an Infiniti G35 on order........couldn't wait to get rid of the Bimmer. Then you've got Volkswagon who has consistently been dead last in reliablity studies for years now, but if you ask most people on the street what the least reliable cars are, most of the time they are just going to unwittingly say "American cars". I don't get it.