Clarett Loses In Court One More Time

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by BrudLee

The NFL is protecting their product, and should be commended for doing so......The league has set up certain guidelines to insure that the players for its franchises are physically, mentally and emotionally mature enough to perform like professionals and not diminish the product they sell. These rules are arbitrary and make no sense, but since deciding matters on a case-by-case basis isn't feasible (operationally or legally), the arbitrary rules stand.

The NFL should be commended because they insure that players are physically, mentally and emotionally ready?
Do you really think that NFL really believes that every male at 21 suddenly transforms into Mother Theresa? Come on.
We can agree to disagree, but I think the league is hiding behind this excuse, so they can set up a rule that will keep them in good the NCAA.
Each team should choose which players they want or don't want, not the league.
Your argument implies the league "suits" think they know more about player talent evaluation and whether they are ready for the NFL than the scouts and coaches. I don't think that Paul Tagliabue knows more about college players that are ready for the NFL than a scout or coach...do you?.
You say, "since deciding matters on a case-by-case basis isn't feasible (operationally or legally), the arbitrary rules stand."
Each NFL team already decide on a case by case basis if they want a certain player or not. Legally? What is illegal about each NFL teams deciding on a case by case basis if they want to draft a player or not?

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Hogskin

WHOA, Defensewins. That was a lot of powerful assertions to make about the MOTIVES of others. Whatever the motives are, how can anyone complain about what it does to/for many, many people. This system gives thousands of guys who can not afford it a FREE college education, and a great shot at a financially successful life outside of PRO sports. The NFL/NCAA system is even providing much of the funding that ultimately supports scholarships in OTHER sports. Then, for the hundreds of guys who become multimillionaires in the NFL, I hope no one is griping for THEM. I sure don't want to hear another "slavery" comment relating to a multi-millionaire athelete. What utter nonsense. These guys have opportunity handed to them on a silver platter, and all they have to do is play sports to earn it. Guys like Clarett, through repeated dishonesty and rules violations, damage their chances. But the STILL can get the opportunity. Amazing. How can anyone say this is unfair? It is a shame what happened with Williams, but he was impatient and took a huge gamble. The NFL stated from the outset that they were going to fight it legally. Williams got bad legal advice. Many others stuck it out and were patient. Hopefully, Williams will not be hurt by this in the long run. Clarett? I really don't care - this guy will always be trouble.

When I have I said Slavery? What are you talking about?
You are right the NFL has a huge altruistic past. They are not in it for the money, they want to make everyone else better person. :confused:
Wow, we can really agree to disagree.
The NFL has a huge history of treating its past players poorly. It was not until the late 70's that the multi-billion dollar NFL started to take care of past great players. Players did not start to make big money until free agency started in the 80's. Owners and the league were pocketing millions while paying their players small amonts, in comparision to the profits that the league and its players were bringing in. It took several player strikes to get the the greedy owners to share in the profits. Are you actually lecturing me that NFL, its owners and the NCAA are altruistic.
The NFl and the NCAA are not providing the funding for all of this, the NFL and NCAA fans and supporters are.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Just something to ponder here:

Who is paying for Clarett's lawyers? Or are these guys doing it "pro bono"?

If they re "running a tab" for Maurice, I suggest he damned well better get himself a fat contract one of these days soon because lawyers of this type charge $600 - 700 an hour where I come from and they have to have several hundred hours on the tab already. Do the math folks...

[Hogskin]

Maybe Defensewins is kicking in $$ for Clarett's lawyers LOL. Seems like he has a MAJOR ax to grind with the NFL and NCAA.

A couple points, if you can try to think rarionally for just a second. You are arguing from both sides. First you blame the NFL/NCAA system for causing untold harm. Then, when a valid point is made that the NFL/NCAA system actually does a tremendous amount of GOOD, you dismiss it, because the fans put up the money that the NFL/NCAA football generates. DUH!!! What difference does that make? Sounds like you are now saying your issues with the system are the fault of the FANS. We were discussing the system. If you don't want to put up your money, you don't have to. In fact, with your totally negative attitude toward the NFL, why are you here??? The Redskins ARE the NFL, along with 31 other like-minded partners.

One last thing. You did not get the reference to slavery. I will spell it out for you parochially. Your statements were so anti-NFL, and so bleeding-heart pitious of the poor offended players. Slavery has historically been the next step for players with this radical point of view. I was just pointing out the direction your remarks had taken.

[Daseal]

Clarrett screwed himself by failing to play by the rules (any rules - NCAA or NFL) and his multi million dollar talent is going to get him a job which requires him to learn one line and one line only -- "Would you like fries with that??"

Don't get too sure about this. I watched quite a few Ohio State games when Clarette played, and I watched interviews of him recently. He's not here trying to make himself a martyr for other young, gifted players. He's trying to play. All he wants to do is play, and from what I've seen is completely motivated. You can say a bunch of bullshit about how staying in school and getting an education is what they need. Bullshit. These guys don't learn anything but football. You think staying in college till 3 years after HS is important. Let us look at a great ex-Redskin. Mr Dexter Manly. How did he get through college without the ability to read? I'm sure it's from that amazing education he received, for free, because he was such a great football player. At least he had a nice education to fall back on, right?

There is no constitutional right to play in the NFL - I checked.

Check the pre-amble. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Which one of these three ideals are being kept from Maurice? I'll let you figure it out.

This system gives thousands of guys who can not afford it a FREE college education

Exactly. Shouldn't these free educations be given to those kids that will use the education? Not someone who's going to go for 3 years and then join the NFL right away and never look back. If we let people like Clarett skip the football farms it saves taxpayers (schoolarships aren't free either) money, and let's kids that actually need the education have it.

Sports: I heard a rumor they were working for free to get exposure. Not sure if you can hold anything against a rumor. If not, you're right, he needs a job, and soon!

[sportscurmudgeon]

Daseal:

I checked the Preamble to the US Consitution and it says nothing at all about "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness". I'll be happy to type in the Preamble for you here if you would like...

However, that phrase does appear in the Declaration of Independence. Unfortunately, the Declaration of Independence has no force of law; it predates the Constitution by about 15 years.

If everyone had a Constitutional right to work in their chosen field, then there would be no legal basis for licensing surgeons or airline pilots or school bus drivers. Hell, in Virginia you have to have a license to open a salon that does nails. And in this respect, one is not presumed to be competent until proven otherwise. You don't get to perform abdominal surgery on patients until a certain fraction of them die horrible deaths and then you get "cut from the roster". In far more erudite language, I'm told that this is part of the NFL's argument and that it is one of the parts that resonated with the appeals court panel.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Don't get too sure about this. I watched quite a few Ohio State games when Clarette played, and I watched interviews of him recently. He's not here trying to make himself a martyr for other young, gifted players. He's trying to play. All he wants to do is play, and from what I've seen is completely motivated. You can say a bunch of bullshit about how staying in school and getting an education is what they need. Bullshit. These guys don't learn anything but football. You think staying in college till 3 years after HS is important. Let us look at a great ex-Redskin. Mr Dexter Manly. How did he get through college without the ability to read? I'm sure it's from that amazing education he received, for free, because he was such a great football player. At least he had a nice education to fall back on, right?


Check the pre-amble. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Which one of these three ideals are being kept from Maurice? I'll let you figure it out.


Exactly. Shouldn't these free educations be given to those kids that will use the education? Not someone who's going to go for 3 years and then join the NFL right away and never look back. If we let people like Clarett skip the football farms it saves taxpayers (schoolarships aren't free either) money, and let's kids that actually need the education have it.

Sports: I heard a rumor they were working for free to get exposure. Not sure if you can hold anything against a rumor. If not, you're right, he needs a job, and soon!

Well daseal, for 2 guy's who disagree as much as we do politically, we sure think alike when it come to football.

The player's should be greatfull that these colleges give these ball player's an opportunity to make thousands even million's of dollar's?

Then why aren't they pushing for clarett? I will tell you why, they don't mind if a kid makes million's, so long as they have had an opportunity to milk his talent for as long as possible, so they can make thousand's off of him, as DW said and I have said before, these colleges could care less for these kid's, if they cared they wouldn't punish them if they deciede to come back to school after they may have signed with an agent, and the fact that they are disallowing william's to come back is garbage, I don't care what they told him before the NFL appealed, Clarett didn't play by the rules and was ostracized, william's did play by the rules, and now they are sticking it to him, to deter any one else from leaving.

Why does clarett need a supplemental draft? If he win's he could be a free agent, everyone in the NFL say's Clarett will go in the 4th rd., but aren't those the same guy's who said julius jones is the 6th maybe 7th best back in the draft? the kid in his freshman year was arguably the best back in the nation, and won a national title, this kid is a far better talent than lawerence phillip's could ever dream to be, does he have the head for it? Who know's? It look's like to me he really is not interested in school, and want's to make some money, if he's truly not ready for the NFL then why not let him enter the draft? nobody will draft him and he will have learned his lesson, so what's the big deal? I will tell you, he is ready for the NFL, and the last thing the NFL or colleges want is a successful 19 year old showing other's the way.

Joe R you said this kid will be bagging groceries, so I guess staying in college will land him on wall street, daseal's right save college for those who actually use it to thier advantage, these kid's are there for 1 reason only to make the college money, and save money on a farm league for the NFL, if a kid want's to realize his dream a little early, he should have that opportunity.

also Joe R. be careful how you talk about people who bag groceries, you could be refering to the next league and SB MVP! see Kurt Warner

[Daseal]

Sports. you're right. I'm sorry.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by offiss

also Joe R. be careful how you talk about people who bag groceries, you could be refering to the next league and SB MVP! see Kurt Warner

Doh! got me on that one.

And by the way, just heard hell has actually frozen over - Daseal and Offiss agreeing on something?? Who'd a thunk it?!

[Daseal]

haha
Offiss and I often agree - provided it's not a chat about politics!

[BrudLee]

Daseal - no one is denying Clarett his right to play football - there are several venues to do just that. The argument seems to be whether he has the right to play in the NFL, rather than the CFL, Arena League, or some other less glamorous venue - for one year.

I agree that the rule is arbitrary and has little basis as to whether a player is "ready" for the NFL. You have to agree that deciding whether each player individually is ready is, to say the least, logistically problematic. It would also leave the league open to hundreds of lawsuits from players told to wait a year. So this arbitrary rule is how they've chosen to defend the league from players whose maturity might be outshined by their 40 times, and therefore weaken the product.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by BrudLee

Daseal - no one is denying Clarett his right to play football - there are several venues to do just that. The argument seems to be whether he has the right to play in the NFL, rather than the CFL, Arena League, or some other less glamorous venue - for one year.

I agree that the rule is arbitrary and has little basis as to whether a player is "ready" for the NFL. You have to agree that deciding whether each player individually is ready is, to say the least, logistically problematic. It would also leave the league open to hundreds of lawsuits from players told to wait a year. So this arbitrary rule is how they've chosen to defend the league from players whose maturity might be outshined by their 40 times, and therefore weaken the product.

I understand the opposing argument for Clarett to stay out of the NFL, but don't you think BL that if a player is not ready a team won't draft him? Team's are in no way forced to draft anyone particular player, and even if they do, thet are not forced to play him right away, let's face it how many of these kid's are really ready after 2 year's? very few, I just believe that if there is an exeptional kid who may be ready to compete on the NFL level, he should be givin that chance, as far as making money, sport's are some of these kid's only shot, what happen's to a Clarett if he suffer's a career ending injury? before he ever get's to the NFL? Are the colleges going top pay his way the rest of his life? Not every body has the head for school, but thier gift may be as an athlete, should kid's be punished if accademicly they are so smart that major companies want to hire them before they get out of college, and offer them million's to work for them? as far as I know there is no stipulation that they can't, [I know this is a unlikly scenerio] but the option is there, what should be done here is allow these kid's to enter the draft, if they don't like where they are drafted then the college's should reinstate thier eligibility, we are not talking about a lot of player's here, the thing that kill's me about this whole thing is this, if that kid quit school and went to work in construction or another dangerous job, you wouldn't hear boo from these colleges, yes he's old enough to work a dangerous job, possibly hanging off sky scrapper's, or join the military and maybe get killed, or injured, but he's just not ready to be drafted by the NFL, WHAT ABOUT HIS EDUCATION? HOW WILL HE EVER SURVIVE IF HE DOESN'T MAKE IT IN THE NFL?, I just feel the whole thing is very hypocrytical, as well I feel it punishes a kid who may not have the book smart's, but is football savey.

[sportscurmudgeon]

offiss:

If teams only drafted players ready to play in the NFL ,there would be no disastrously bad picks. Ryan Leaf would have been an undrafted free agent; same with Rick Mirer and same with that big stud offensive tackle that was drafted by Green Bay who stunk on a bagel (can't remember his name at the moment).

There is a thread here asking if several current Redskins were "wasted picks". If you assertion were correct and only players ready to play were taken, no such thread would ever need to be started.

Clarett can protect himself against a career ending injury with an insurance policy. Even the NCAA, which hates to admit that athletes get certain bennies that other students do not, will allow this and allow him to retain eligibility. (Where can he get the money? From the same place that he is getting the money to pay his lawyers.)

Problem is that Clarett tossed his eligibility in the ashcan when he stopped going to class to maintain academic eligibility. So now that kind of policy is not really open to him.

Clarett chose to put all his eggs in one basket. Notice I said he CHOSE to do that; no one put a gun to his head and made him do it against his will. Then he forgot to keep a careful eye on the basket...

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Hogskin

Maybe Defensewins is kicking in $$ for Clarett's lawyers LOL. Seems like he has a MAJOR ax to grind with the NFL and NCAA.

A couple points, if you can try to think rarionally for just a second. You are arguing from both sides. First you blame the NFL/NCAA system for causing untold harm. Then, when a valid point is made that the NFL/NCAA system actually does a tremendous amount of GOOD, you dismiss it, because the fans put up the money that the NFL/NCAA football generates. DUH!!! What difference does that make? Sounds like you are now saying your issues with the system are the fault of the FANS. We were discussing the system. If you don't want to put up your money, you don't have to. In fact, with your totally negative attitude toward the NFL, why are you here??? The Redskins ARE the NFL, along with 31 other like-minded partners.

One last thing. You did not get the reference to slavery. I will spell it out for you parochially. Your statements were so anti-NFL, and so bleeding-heart pitious of the poor offended players. Slavery has historically been the next step for players with this radical point of view. I was just pointing out the direction your remarks had taken.

I think you missed my entire point. Believe it or not, my problem is with this rule and how the NFL tries to justify it. I DO NOT have a major ax to grind with the NFL/NCAA...NFL football is my favorite sport.
I do have a problem when the NFL makes a blanket rule like every adult under 21 is not ready for the NFL. There are many 21 year olds and older who are not ready for the NFL.
Also, I did not say the 'NFL /NCAA system has caused untold harm'. I was just responding to someone that was implying the NFL is pure and altruistic in its policies and ways. I was just pointing out the NFL in its past has not always been perfect, charitable and clean cut as it is today.

I am sorry you think these points to my argument are so radical to you. LOL
You act like it is treasonous for me speak out against the NFL, when in my opinion they did something wrong. This is still America right? I can speak out against the NFL when I think they are being unfair?
You do not need to attack me personally by calling my argument "so anti-NFL, and so bleeding-heart pitious (sp?)...(You go on to say) "Slavery has historically been the next step for players with this radical point of view. I was just pointing out the direction your remarks had taken."
Wow next you are going to call me a nothern-er/yankee.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

offiss:

If teams only drafted players ready to play in the NFL ,there would be no disastrously bad picks. Ryan Leaf would have been an undrafted free agent; same with Rick Mirer and same with that big stud offensive tackle that was drafted by Green Bay who stunk on a bagel (can't remember his name at the moment).

There is a thread here asking if several current Redskins were "wasted picks". If you assertion were correct and only players ready to play were taken, no such thread would ever need to be started.

Clarett can protect himself against a career ending injury with an insurance policy. Even the NCAA, which hates to admit that athletes get certain bennies that other students do not, will allow this and allow him to retain eligibility. (Where can he get the money? From the same place that he is getting the money to pay his lawyers.)

Problem is that Clarett tossed his eligibility in the ashcan when he stopped going to class to maintain academic eligibility. So now that kind of policy is not really open to him.

Clarett chose to put all his eggs in one basket. Notice I said he CHOSE to do that; no one put a gun to his head and made him do it against his will. Then he forgot to keep a careful eye on the basket...

Tony mandarich- green bay. there are no certainties when it comes to the draft, I just feel Clarett should be alotted the same opportunity as a junior in college.
I have to say about player's being ready, the question is not if he's talented enough, but whether or not he is physically ready, although there are plenty of bust's, it's usually because they are not talented enough, the case with underclassmen is they are not physically ready for the NFL, and I can see the point trying to be made, it's not unreasonable, but you have to admit there is alway's an exception to the rule, we all know not everybody mature's at the same rate, some guy's are much further along than other's, why should they be held back? I believe it's nothing more than college's losing the draw of star power, thus losing out on a lot of money, did Clarett bring this on himself? Absolutly, but that doesn't mean he's wrong, many people have challenged the establishment when they felt there was an injustes, Curt Flood opened the way for free agency, was he wrong? And I feel this situation with Clarett is a minor ripple in the rule changes, that really won't affect that much either way, I just feel it's not right if a kid is not smart enough to go to college, that he should be punished for it, and not allow to pursue another venue of income in the NFL.