The Portis move in hindsight

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Big C

doesnt really matter what gibbs knew about betts, betts was constantly injured early in his career and couldnt show us his skills. and yeah bailey wanted out anyways, it was essentially trading a free agent

That's the best point. Betts couldn't keep himself on the field most of the time. He got hurt returning kicks and in a backup role a lot. That's probably another reason they went out and got Duckett. Also, it's been mentioned, but he is a horrible blocker. I feel like a lot of that pressure would have been picked up by Clinton last week. Betts hasn't performed until this season. He's looked mediocre every other time he saw significant action. I'm still weary of resigning him because a lot of people have big contract years and then it doesn't really come together for em after they get paid. A lot like baseball.

In addition to all that, the Skins had absolutely no chance of retaining Champ. He didnt wanna be here and was not coming back

[dmek25]

not this again. bailey did not want to be a redskin. and the more betts plays, seems like he fumbles more and more. not something coach gibbs likes to see in his starters. and i cant remember the last time portis fumbled. anyone know how many he had last year?

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Portis didn't fumble this year and he had 3 last year of which 2 were lost for turnovers.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

He didn't fumble this year and he had 3 last year of which 2 were lost for turnovers.

Uhhh... Betts has fumbled three times this season, and the one that was a turnover basically gave the game to the Bucs.

As far as the trade, as many have said, Champ wasn't going to be here regardless, so I don't think there's even an argument as to whether is was a good move or not. And it's funny to me that the same people that want to claim Portis isn't built for Gibbs' system are the same people claiming that we could have drafted Tatum Bell, who is almost exactly the same build as Portis, and seems to get injured every other week.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Uhhh... Betts has fumbled three times this season, and the one that was a turnover basically gave the game to the Bucs.

I was talking about Portis.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

I was talking about Portis.

Oops. My fault.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Uhhh... Betts has fumbled three times this season, and the one that was a turnover basically gave the game to the Bucs.

As far as the trade, as many have said, Champ wasn't going to be here regardless, so I don't think there's even an argument as to whether is was a good move or not. And it's funny to me that the same people that want to claim Portis isn't built for Gibbs' system are the same people claiming that we could have drafted Tatum Bell, who is almost exactly the same build as Portis, and seems to get injured every other week.

I think he was giving Portis's fumble numbers, but more importantly, you hit on the Tatum Bell thing. Thank you! Tatum is garbage if he plays for any team except for the Broncos. And ya know what? He's not that good there. He's hurt a lot, like you said, but he's having trouble beating out Mike Bell. Tatum might not hit 1000 yards and he still hasn't caught Clinton's td total THIS season. Tatum isn't that good.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Uhhh... Betts has fumbled three times this season, and the one that was a turnover basically gave the game to the Bucs.

As far as the trade, as many have said, Champ wasn't going to be here regardless, so I don't think there's even an argument as to whether is was a good move or not. And it's funny to me that the same people that want to claim Portis isn't built for Gibbs' system are the same people claiming that we could have drafted Tatum Bell, who is almost exactly the same build as Portis, and seems to get injured every other week.

Why would we have drafted Bell if Betts was already here?

I agree, Champ wanted out. Fine. But don't give Den. a 2nd rounder and Champ for Portis. WTF was that all about?????? Basically they got two starters and we got one. They got the better of the deal. And say what you want about Bell, he is not an everydown back. But when he is healthy he seems to do very well. I believe he averaged over 5 yards a carry last year.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Why would we have drafted Bell if Betts was already here?

I agree, Champ wanted out. Fine. But don't give Den. a 2nd rounder and Champ for Portis. WTF was that all about?????? Basically they got two starters and we got one. They got the better of the deal. And say what you want about Bell, he is not an everydown back. But when he is healthy he seems to do very well. I believe he averaged over 5 yards a carry last year.

They would have needed Bell because Betts isn't an every down back. He's not a guy who can stay healthy for 16 weeks while carrying the load. Until this year, he hasn't stayed healthy for a whole season yet. And there're still 4 games left. Also, he was out early in the preseason, if memory serves me correctly. Anyway, they would have needed another back because Betts isn't a real #1 and he's not reliable.

Beyond that, Bailey wasn't coming back. Period. He didn't want to be a Redskin. He wasn't going to resign. He didn't like it in Washington and wasn't going to resign. What could the Skins have done? Denver could've just signed him or the Skins could have kept a malcontent as a franchise player. They had to give up the 2 or they wouldn't have gotten the deal done. Champ should basically be taken out of the consideration of the trade because he wasn't going to be a Skin, one way or another. Who cares about the 2, anyway? What's the last starter the Skins got from the second round? Smoot? Cause Rocky hasn't seen the field yet. C'mon, the 2's not that big of a deal. And besides, they gave up a 3 for Duckett and he never sees the field...

[budw38]

Originally Posted by jdlea

They would have needed Bell because Betts isn't an every down back. He's not a guy who can stay healthy for 16 weeks while carrying the load. Until this year, he hasn't stayed healthy for a whole season yet. And there're still 4 games left. Also, he was out early in the preseason, if memory serves me correctly. Anyway, they would have needed another back because Betts isn't a real #1 and he's not reliable.

Beyond that, Bailey wasn't coming back. Period. He didn't want to be a Redskin. He wasn't going to resign. He didn't like it in Washington and wasn't going to resign. What could the Skins have done? Denver could've just signed him or the Skins could have kept a malcontent as a franchise player. They had to give up the 2 or they wouldn't have gotten the deal done. Champ should basically be taken out of the consideration of the trade because he wasn't going to be a Skin, one way or another. Who cares about the 2, anyway? What's the last starter the Skins got from the second round? Smoot? Cause Rocky hasn't seen the field yet. C'mon, the 2's not that big of a deal. And besides, they gave up a 3 for Duckett and he never sees the field...

Yeah , NOBODY ever finds good talent after rd 1 ! Give most teams a 3rd and two 4th round picks and they will find starters , Patriots , Steelers , Colts , Bengals ,Ravens ect . We could have easily built a top 5 - 10 defence with the 2nd - 4th rd picks we let go the last few years . Cb Marshall 2nd T Trueblood 2nd , De's Canty< UVA > 4th rd , Dummerville ,4th , Anderson 4th , Adeyandji 4thDt cofield 4th.too many lost opprotunities to list Couldn't we have traded Bailey for a 1st and a 3rd rd pick , after all we gave up two 2nd rd picks for Rocky , and two picks for Loyd and Bailey is much better than both of them combined .

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

This article about Betts really made me wonder:

Given chance to shine, Betts ponders staying with Redskins - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

If Gibbs really knew what he had in Betts when he got here, do you think he would have still made the move for Portis?? He says he doesn't regret making the move and of course Portis is a top flight back in this league, but I wonder how things would have turned out if he thought Betts was a capable starting back. I doubt we would have been able to retain Bailey anyway, he really seemed set on getting out of here.

Just one of those things that makes you wonder.

I got killed when I brought this up a few weeks ago. But it's a good subject to talk about. Gibbs was away from the NFL for 11 years. He should not have been given ANY authority on personel. If a real GM was here that person should have told Gibbs that Betts has the ability to be an everydown back, and there was no need to deal for Portis. He's a 2nd rounder and those players should become your starters, not backups. He was a very productive player in college. So IMO another bad move by Gibbs.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I got killed when I brought this up a few weeks ago. But it's a good subject to talk about. Gibbs was away from the NFL for 11 years. He should not have been given ANY authority on personel. If a real GM was here that person should have told Gibbs that Betts has the ability to be an everydown back, and there was no need to deal for Portis. He's a 2nd rounder and those players should become your starters, not backups. He was a very productive player in college. So IMO another bad move by Gibbs.

The problem is that, until this season, Betts hasn't been healthy enough to be an every down back in this league. And his sick 4.1 yards/carry for his career isn't exactly awe inspiring. Especially, not for a change of pace back. By contrast, Tatum Bell has averaged 5 yards/carry and I don't think he's THAT good. Also, Betts hasn't even caught Clinton's td production for this season. AND he's a horrible blocker.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jdlea

The problem is that, until this season, Betts hasn't been healthy enough to be an every down back in this league. And his sick 4.1 yards/carry for his career isn't exactly awe inspiring. Especially, not for a change of pace back. By contrast, Tatum Bell has averaged 5 yards/carry and I don't think he's THAT good. Also, Betts hasn't even caught Clinton's td production for this season. AND he's a horrible blocker.

Beat me by one minute. But yeah, I totally agree

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by jdlea

The problem is that, until this season, Betts hasn't been healthy enough to be an every down back in this league. And his sick 4.1 yards/carry for his career isn't exactly awe inspiring. Especially, not for a change of pace back. By contrast, Tatum Bell has averaged 5 yards/carry and I don't think he's THAT good. Also, Betts hasn't even caught Clinton's td production for this season. AND he's a horrible blocker.

Ok. I agree with you on that. Betts had not shown much. So let Rock C. and Kenny Watson be the back ups. Remember Kenny W? He ran well and so did Rock during the Spurrier years. I just think that you can win with average RB's. But you can't win with a bad defense. You can't hide that. I always believe that you keep the draft picks and stockpile.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Ok. I agree with you on that. Betts had not shown much. So let Rock C. and Kenny Watson be the back ups. Remember Kenny W? He ran well and so did Rock during the Spurrier years. I just think that you can win with average RB's. But you can't win with a bad defense. You can't hide that. I always believe that you keep the draft picks and stockpile.

You couldn't have made the argument about the D till this year. They were fine with Smoot and Springs. They were okay with Springs and Harris last year and they were better with Springs and Rogers till this year. If they had drafted a defensive guy, he wouldn't have seen the field anyway, because apparently Williams doesn't care how a vet is playing, he won't pull him for a rookie.