No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Even if he's not a top tier linemen to some, he was an integral part of the running successes of the team throughout the year in addition to ranking near the top in sacks allowed.

I'll take that and continuity any day of the week.

That's what people need to focus on. I'm not saying "give him whatever he wants." However, they need to keep this group together. There are usually some growing pains when an offensive line gets a new guy...see: Casey Rabach. That didn't go so smoothly his first season. I think they need to keep this group together and hope that they continue to improve.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Right. It would be one thing if he was constantly costing us games, giving up sacks and we had a horrible running game. This, "let this guy go because we can sign someone better" is exactly how the Redskins get into trouble in the first place.

Dockery wasn't giving up touchdowns to WRs all season. Dockery wasn't missing tackles.

[squrrelco3]

I guess the real question is what is he REALLY worth...everyone on the planet, including myself hammers the FO (Gibbs included) for making bad deals by overpaying for marginal players. Why overpay for ANYONE even if he's already on the team I mean I hate to see a "Core Guy" go but not if he wants too much money.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

If I'm going to pick between overpaying players on the team and showing some loyalty OR going out and picking someone up and overpaying them, I'll take the former.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

If I'm going to pick between overpaying players on the team and showing some loyalty OR going out and picking someone up and overpaying them, I'll take the former.

That's the big point, I don't want them lowballing D Dock and then going out and signing some aging big money free agent. Or someone they just overvalue...Adam Archuletta...If it's between a 10 mil signing bonus for someone an Archuletta caliber player or 7.5 million to Dockery, KEEP DOCKERY! Even I think 7.5 is a little high, but if it's not for a significantly better player, they just need to keep their guy. Continuity goes a long way.

[Schneed10]

I smell trouble on this one, a whole heap of trouble.

Gibbs has a way of digging in his heels, insisting that Marcus Washington was better than Antonio Pierce, so Pierce should not have been paid more than Marcus. I'm guessing they're thinking along those lines for Randy Thomas and Dock. I'll bet Dock is asking for Randy T money, and Gibbs/Snyder and company won't budge.

Doesn't bode well, IMO. The line will revolt if they don't sign Dockery.

[Longtimefan]

I'm going to allow the prospective outcome on Dockery run it's course. It's way too early yet to speculate. I do however think they will eventually get him signed, he's important to the stability of the Oline which was the teams greatest strength this season.

[freddyg12]

I hate to hear "far apart", but it is early. Let's just hope that they haven't already offended him like they did w/champ & Ryan Clark by telling him he's never going to get the deal he wants.
I'm gonna say Dock is worth $10 mil. in signing bonus, but only if a third is incentive laden.

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I smell trouble on this one, a whole heap of trouble.

Gibbs has a way of digging in his heels, insisting that Marcus Washington was better than Antonio Pierce, so Pierce should not have been paid more than Marcus. I'm guessing they're thinking along those lines for Randy Thomas and Dock. I'll bet Dock is asking for Randy T money, and Gibbs/Snyder and company won't budge.

Doesn't bode well, IMO. The line will revolt if they don't sign Dockery.

I am pulling for them to keep Dockery, but if he is asking for Randy Thomas money he is crazy - Randy Thomas is way better than Dockery and it isn't even close. Thomas can pull better than most guards in the league, Dockery is a huge guard but from what I have heard he is not the best pulling guard around. Plus didn't Dockery have a lot of false starts compared ot the other lineman?

If some team throws a massive contract his way you can't blkame the Skins for trying to be fiscally responsible. I know continuity is key, but if a contract similar to Thomas is given to Dock, I would look elsewhere.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

I hate to hear "far apart", but it is early. Let's just hope that they haven't already offended him like they did w/champ & Ryan Clark by telling him he's never going to get the deal he wants.
I'm gonna say Dock is worth $10 mil. in signing bonus, but only if a third is incentive laden.

An incentive-laden signing bonus is an oxymoron. Signing bonuses are guaranteed money. You're probably thinking a $7 million signing bonus and a $3 million club option somewhere down the line.

Anal salary cap brigade out.

[REDSKIN2]

Why does it seem like the negotiations in signing our own players are always "far apart" and painful. But throw a Free Agent into the mix and all of sudden we have a contract in seconds flat.

It's like we worry about salary cap ramifications with signing our own players but in signing these big time free agents we don't care.

Interesting to say the least and very frustrating.

[redsk1]

The problem with this situation and more situations to come is that the Skins FO has now overpaid for players that haven't performed. It would be easy for Dock or anyone else to remind the skins how much they paid for other players that don't even play.

It's hard for the organization to start being frugal w/ contracts when they haven't been.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by redsk1

The problem with this situation and more situations to come is that the Skins FO has now overpaid for players that haven't performed. It would be easy for Dock or anyone else to remind the skins how much they paid for other players that don't even play.

It's hard for the organization to start being frugal w/ contracts when they haven't been.

The Redskins could also remind Dock how many times a Pro-Bowler like Chris Samuels (who saved Dock's ass more often than not his first year, I'm not a huge Samuels fan but I'll give him that) has restructured his contract to help keep guys like Dockery.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

The Redskins could also remind Dock how many times a Pro-Bowler like Chris Samuels (who saved Dock's ass more often than not his first year, I'm not a huge Samuels fan but I'll give him that) has restructured his contract to help keep guys like Dockery.

Those restructures shouldn't be passed off as some noble gesture, though. In fact, the players like a restructured deal better. They don't take paycuts on those restructures, they get the same amount of money their contract calls for, except instead of getting it in game checks, they get it in a lump sum payment upon signing.

Besides, Samuels gave the 'Skins hell when he went through his renegotiations. Walter Jones had just signed for a ridiculous sum, Samuels knew the 'Skins needed salary cap relief from him, and they gave in and made him the 3rd highest paid T in the league (at the time). So it's not like Samuels specifically has helped the team out much.

When players restructure their deals, they're not sacrificing ANYTHING for the team at all. They still get every bit of money coming to them. It just comes in different forms: lump sum vs spread out over game checks.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Those restructures shouldn't be passed off as some noble gesture, though. In fact, the players like a restructured deal better. They don't take paycuts on those restructures, they get the same amount of money their contract calls for, except instead of getting it in game checks, they get it in a lump sum payment upon signing.

Besides, Samuels gave the 'Skins hell when he went through his renegotiations. Walter Jones had just signed for a ridiculous sum, Samuels knew the 'Skins needed salary cap relief from him, and they gave in and made him the 3rd highest paid T in the league (at the time). So it's not like Samuels specifically has helped the team out much.

When players restructure their deals, they're not sacrificing ANYTHING for the team at all. They still get every bit of money coming to them. It just comes in different forms: lump sum vs spread out over game checks.

Good points. I think the bigger question is if we lose Dockery, will God just create another offensive lineman or will one evolve?
(cross promotion of threads!)