Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Didn't he have a hand in the drafting of studs like Shuler, Westbrook and Andre Johnson?

He also had disasters such as Westbrook punching out Davis and issues with Albert Connell go down on his watch.

Let's not absolve him all of blame now, he stinks as a head coach and he'll prove it for the 3rd time in San Diego.

Was it he or Charlie Casserly? Either way, Shuler and Westbrook were touted by many as the real deal. Just like Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning, all the "experts" said it was 1 and 1a with those two. Half of Westbrook's problems were due to his extensive history and knack for injuries.

Connell was a head case -- nothing more. You want to blame Norv for his mental capacity too? Connell was kicked off the team. What else did you want? Norv is supposed to be a psycho-therapist as well as his other responsibilities as a head coach/O-coordinator?

Turner was the coach when the pendulum swung the other way for the Redskins. He was there for the wrong cycle.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Turner was the coach when the pendulum swung the other way for the Redskins. He was there for the wrong cycle.

I think this assessment is accurate.

Somebody had to follow Gibbs I.

Turner's Raiders offenses look like the "greatest show on grass slightly below sea level" compared to the one they trotted out this year (His QB was every bit as bad as the bozos they have now). The guy knows his offense. If Gannon didn't get hurt in 04, that may have been a playoff team.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Was it he or Charlie Casserly? Either way, Shuler and Westbrook were touted by many as the real deal. Just like Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning, all the "experts" said it was 1 and 1a with those two. Half of Westbrook's problems were due to his extensive history and knack for injuries.

Connell was a head case -- nothing more. You want to blame Norv for his mental capacity too? Connell was kicked off the team. What else did you want? Norv is supposed to be a psycho-therapist as well as his other responsibilities as a head coach/O-coordinator?

Turner was the coach when the pendulum swung the other way for the Redskins. He was there for the wrong cycle.

Yeah it only took 6 years for that pendulum to swing.

Norv was the one that made the call on the drafting of Shuler and Westbrook. Here's a good summary of his tenure here:

SportingNews.com Blogs

Super Bowl XXVIII would be the final game for both Dallas head coach Jimmy Johnson and Turner, as Johnson was ran off by owner Jerry Jones. Redskins GM Charley Casserly would convince Redskins owner Jack Kent Cooke to hire Norv Turner to replace Ritchie Pettibone, who was fired after one 4-12 season.

In the 1994 NFL Draft, Washington had the #3 pick. Reports started coming out that the ‘Skins was wanting to draft a quarterback. Tennessee QB Heath Shuler was projected as the top QB prospect, and rumors began coming out that Turner was interested in drafting him. However, reports began coming out of the NFL Scouting Combine that Shuler had bombed on the Wonderlic test, lowering his draft stock. Despite this, Turner was still interested in Shuler. Adding to that, Casserly had his eye on Fresno State QB Trent Dilfer. On draft day Casserly let Turner make the call, and Turner chose Shuler over Dilfer. The Redskins would also draft another quarterback in the 7th round, Gus Frerotte from Tulsa. The difference in opinion between Casserly and Turner would be a constant theme during Turner’s tenure in Washington.

In Turner’s first season, 3 QBs started for the ‘Skins. Turner alternated between Frerotte and Shuler and later in the season Frerotte, subbing for and injured Shuler, beat the Colts in Week 8, winning the starting job for the rest of the season. That first season, the Redskins would finish 3-13.

In 1995 Shuler started the season, but an injury in the Redskins’ season opening win against Arizona would put Frerotte back into the game. Washington finished the season at 6-10, highlighted by a regular season sweep of the eventual Super Bowl champion Dallas Cowboys, one with Shuler as the starter.

In 1996 Casserly traded the #6 draft pick to St. Louis for DL Sean Gilbert. Frerotte was named the starter by Turner, with Shuler benched for the whole season. Washington began the season winning 7 of their first 8 games. However they would become inconsistent during the rest of the season, and finish at 9-7. Frerotte, RB Terry Allen both had big seasons, earning Pro Bowl trips. Shuler was released at the end of the season, and publicly criticized the Redskins organization, whom he claimed never supported him.

Expectations were high in 1997; however Turner’s Redskins was only able to put together consecutive wins once, and with a 7-7 tie with the New York Giants, finished the season at 8-7-1.

Casserly wheeled and dealed for defensive help during the 1998 off season, trading a first round draft pick for Cincinnati defensive tackle Dan Wilkinson, and signed free agent defensive tackle Dana Stubblefield. However the new personnel didn’t show to really improve the defense overall, and the defense ranked 28th in points allowed, and the Redskins finished at 6-10.

In 1999, Casserly pulled out all of the stops. Casserly traded the #11 pick to Minnesota for QB Brad Johnson. The Redskins also took advantage of Saints’ head coach Mike Ditka’s man crush of Ricky Williams, trading the #5 pick for all of the Saints’ 1999 picks, plus a first and a third round pick in 2000. One of these picks yielded Georgia CB and all-around threat Champ Bailey. It was clear that the team that had the best off season in 1999 was the 'Skins.

Behind the scenes, however, Turner and Casserly didn’t play well together. In 1995, Turner wanted to draft WR Michael Westbrook. Casserly wanted Joey Galloway. Much like the Heath Shuler bust, Turner got his way, and Westbrook proved to be a bust and a thug. The conflict would come to a head very soon.

In May, billionaire Daniel Snyder purchased the team from the late Jack Kent Cooke’s family. Snyder had wanted to immediately fire Turner, but Casserly talked him out of it. Instead, Snyder fired Casserly, and gave Turner an ultimatum: make the playoffs, or else.

The 1999 Redskins opened the season with a wild 41-35 OT loss to Dallas. They would go on to win the next 4 games, until they met up with Dallas again, and lost – again. After the game, Snyder reportedly took Turner into a room in Texas Stadium and gave him a major tongue lashing. The ‘Skins, however, would take advantage of a weak NFC East, winning the division with a 10-6 record. Stephen Davis had a breakout season, and the big-ego duo of Albert Connell-Michael Westbrook WR combination was potent.

In the Wild Card Game, the Redskins defeated the Detroit Lions 27-13 to set up a Divisional Playoff matchup with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Trailing 13-14 late, punter and placeholder Matt Turk botched the hold for a potential game-winning field goal, ending Washington’s season.

In 2000, with Snyder acting as general manager, the Redskins would go crazy in the free agent market, signing Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, and Jeff George, plus using a first round draft pick on LB LaVar Arrington. The reloaded Redskins were being hyped to be a Super Bowl contender.

On the field, however, the Redskins were inconsistent. At the half way point of the season, the Redskins were 6-2. However, Brad Johnson went down, and the Redskins went into a slump, losing going 1-5. Standing at 7-6 and still with a shot at the Wild Card, Snyder fires Turner, replacing him with Terry Robiskie. The ‘Skins would only win one more game to finish the season 8-8.

Much of the reason Turner stayed in Washington was not because of his ability as coach, but due to the uncertain future direction of the franchise following Jack Kent Cooke's death in 1997. Turner’s years in Washington can be summarized by draft busts, many made by Turner, as well as teams that were generally underachievers. Adding to that, Turner had problems dealing with attitude problems Albert Connell and Michael Westbrook, not a good omen for someone who will have to deal with T.O.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Yeah it only took 6 years for that pendulum to swing.

Norv was the one that made the call on the drafting of Shuler and Westbrook. Here's a good summary of his tenure here

What do you mean in "only took 6 years for the pendulum to swing" ??

The cycle started the moment Gibbs left and the roster was purged due to the advancing age of many of the players that had been with the team since 1980, and the impending change in free agency. The strategy, which was in place before Turner was named head coach, was to literally blow the team up and start over.

Sure, there were mistakes in the draft. And the Wonderlic is as highly regarded as it is discarded by many throughout the league. Like I said, the word on Shuler and Dilfer was the same as it was Leaf and Manning, Rick Mirer and Drew Bledsoe -- 1 and 1a. Flip the coin, they said. The Redskins did and they missed.

Look, I’m not going to spend all day defending Norv – the man had some serious flaws, I don’t think anyone denies that. You say he’ll crash and burn in San Diego despite enormous talent all over that roster. Fine. He just might do that. All I’m saying is that the state the Redskins were in during his time would have been enough to destroy ANY head coach. Look what we’re seeing that now with The Sainted One who has a roster that is light years away from anything Norv had.

Funny how quickly we forget just how awful those Redskins teams were in the early to mid ‘90's.

[JoeRedskin]

They may make the playoffs b/c of their talent - they will not go much further. Turner's teams just don't pay attention to the little things that turn good teams into playoff winning teams.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

They may make the playoffs b/c of their talent - they will not go much further. Turner's teams just don't pay attention to the little things that turn good teams into playoff winning teams.

Interesting. What do you mean by "the little things"?

I actually might agree with you to an extent, but I want to make sure we are on the same page.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Interesting. What do you mean by "the little things"?

I actually might agree with you to an extent, but I want to make sure we are on the same page.

Like untimely offsides, a wrong route, a misread, whiffed punts (yes, there was only one of these but could it have happened at a worse time?), etc. During Norv's tenure here, they just were undisciplined - you could count on someone doing some small, high-school mistake at the wrong time. It was as if there was a general lack of concentration and focus.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

They may make the playoffs b/c of their talent - they will not go much further. Turner's teams just don't pay attention to the little things that turn good teams into playoff winning teams.

I remember back in 1996 we were playing the Colts at home -- it was a point when the Skins were on that 7-1 run; NBC brought up a graphic basically asking the question of what's the secret to their success, something to that effect. Anyway, the Redskins were #1 in the NFL for least number of penalties, #1 for fewest turnovers, and #1 in red zone touchdowns.

Now, we all now how that season ended, and we know what ultimately happened with Norv. But given the right players, Turner has demonstrated that he can guide a team and produce an efficient squad capable of some success.

My biggest problem was that he seemed like a piece of wood, as if he had no motivational skills whatsoever. But then, I only saw him on the sidelines.

I guess he can still prove me wrong, but at times, he was able to create that elusive environment football coaches often speak of. Where the players buy into the system, when they develop that chemistry and reach an expectation of success. He wasn't the worst coach Washington ever had. We only know him by his failure to get us a Lombardi trophy.

Given the right players and the right circumstances, I think only the most bone-headed downright incompetants will get you nowhere. Norv isn't that coach. In San Diego, all the pieces are in place. There may be an adjustment period, but he'll probably prove the genius everyone said he had with Dallas.

[hooskins]

Yeah Norv should have been in Dallas, but either way I feel really bad for the SD fans. They must be really pissed right now.

[ncskinsfanec]

Norv has hit the jackpot on this one! I think he may be the luckiest man in America right now. All he has to do is not screw this up. The Barry Switzer comparison raised earlier is a great one!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by ncskinsfanec

Norv has hit the jackpot on this one! I think he may be the luckiest man in America right now. All he has to do is not screw this up. The Barry Switzer comparison raised earlier is a great one!

I don't think he is as lucky as you may think. He is coming in taking over a 14-2 team which is hard to duplicate no matter who you are in the NFL. If he goes 11-5 which is still a very good season then still misses the playoffs or losses in the playoff people will point to him as the cause. He is almost in a lose lose situation more than a win win. Now take a coach taking over a 3-13 team if they can go 7-9 it would look as a big improvement which is much easier most of the time.

[ncskinsfanec]

I'm not real high on Norv at all, but it did kind of all come together during the '99 season. That offense was something that season with Brad Johnson and Stephen Davis getting it done. Norv has proved more often than not that he can't have success as a head coach, but he has, at least, had a taste of it.

[Longtimefan]

There should not be many reasons why Norv can't be successful in SD. He'll be blessed with the most talented team he's been associated with since he left Dallas, it's just hard thinking he could mess that up.

[That Guy]

i think personnel is seriously 75% of how good your season is going to be. norv lacks leadership, so they better hope the locker room leadership is VERY strong.

in other news, ron rivera looks like he won't be back with the bears, how'd that be for an experienced DC?

[JGisLordOfTheRings]

hahaha

love the title....mediocrity indeed.

8-8 here you come Chargers! Welcome to 2 runs plays and a 2 yard pass every possession. well, maybe it will play into LT's hands. If the O runs like it did here, LT could have a friggin 5000 yd season the way Norv runs the ball lolololol....