Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!

[wbecker999]

Originally Posted by That Guy

wow, before pitifully attempting to call me out, why don't YOU try shedding some insight on why you made this ridiculous thread about why he ISN'T a bust since that's the widely held view of his career. If you want to make that assertion, what proof do you have that he isn't? like YOU went to every game and seen him get this separation.

I can point to the fact that he had the WORST SEASON of ANY starting wide receiver in the history of the super bowl era as proof that he goes mia. your response?

you're making excuses for him without any proof. you implied that he's not a bust and then link to a single catch on youtube follow by some retarded logic that only makes sense to you and contains no facts.

please, before asking someone to reply with actual insight, make sure you thread isn't completely worthless, and that you apply the same standards to your own posts.

hypocrite.

When I called you out the "one catch doesn't define a career" was the only argument I was getting. I don't think that was an intelligent argument especially since my thread didn't imply that. Now if you are still defending your stupid argument that someone else already used before you go ahead.

As for my stupid logic . What's so hard to understand? Lloyd will not be a bust with a good quarterback and a better system.

My proof is I watched all of the redskins game last year. While watching them games I have seen Lloyd open several times especially deep with no one able to get him the deep ball.

Also his yards per catch average at 15.9 is among the best in the league topping Chad Johnson and Santana Moss.

And before you get on a roll about that fact I'm not claiming he is better than either of them players and I realize he had less catches.

[wbecker999]

My original thread should have stated

Brandon Lloyd is not a bust! YET

All I'm saying is give him a chance with a good system and quarterback before we call him a bust.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by That Guy

there are plenty of WRs that can deal with crappy QBs, like boldin in arizona (or fitzgerald), randy moss had 1000 yards with kerry collins, joe horn with aaron brooks, etc etc etc.

that's a really bogus arguement. try again.

Collins and Brooks look like Johnny Unitas compared to an injured Brunell last year.

Lloyd should have had at least one big game (Tampa) last year with Campbell. I say give him another year.

[JoeRedskin]

With the caveat that he is not a bust "Yet", I'd agree. However, I think he is well on the way. He had a reputation for making phenomenal catches in SF but then disappearing for games. He has done nothing to refute that reputation.

Besides, physical skills have never been an issue for Lloyd. Rather, it's the fact that he is a total head case that appears to be his stumbling block. He has apparently pissed off not only his teammates but everyone in Redskin Park down to the janitor. In a the Tampa game, he blames a dropped pass (that would have been an easy TD) on the fact that he was overthrown by 10 yards and, in doing so, throws his QB (Campbell) under the bus.

No, he's not a bust yet. Maybe with JC he will be a consistent downfield threat that will work to help his QB. I doubt it. But who knows - maybe he gets his mind right. 'Cause what we got now is a failure to communicate.

[GoSkins!]

wbecker999, why would you call someone out for replying to your thread? I can assure you that whenever you post something, people will reply who agree and disagree. Each will back up thier arguments with different logic, sometimes emotional, sometimes statistical.

It is especially notable that you, with 50-ish posts, call out someone with 11,000+ posts for disagreeing with you. If one had to guess which one of the two of you would know when and why it would be appropriate to reply...

As far as LLoyd, I'm not sure if he will ever really come around as a reciever. I will say this. I, as probably every guy on this board has, watched every game last season as you did, and Lloyd has a tendency to fall down while making a catch. This is hurting him, but can possibly be corrected. His biggest contributions were in his blocking. I thought he was an outstanding blocker at WR and directly allowed some other guys to score TDs.

Still, to not be labeled a bust, he will have to become more consistent. Some of that is QB, but some of that is WR. This same argument was made for Taylor Jacobs and especially Rod Gardner (who went on to play with Favre and did nothing).

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by wbecker999

Also his yards per catch average at 15.9 is among the best in the league topping Chad Johnson and Santana Moss.

cue the laugh track.

Dude, did you read any of the articles about the Skins this year? Lloyd has psychological problems that go way beyond his ability as a player, and as the Post pointed out in one of their post-season exposes, exceed anything a coach can help him with. The belief is that he needs professional help.

Do you remember him being demoted for throwing his helmet during the Atlanta game? What about when he let a touchdown pass sail through his arms and then had the audacity to blame it on Campbell? Did you read about the way that he alienated everyone on the team, from the stars down to the training staff? Did you hear Portis on John Thompson call him out for being a bad teammate?

I like most people on this board hope that Lloyd can turn things around next year and make an impact. But to suggest that, as of right now, he is anything other than a disaster is folly. And you will have to do better than suggesting that maybe it's the quarterback's fault to convince me or anyone else here otherwise.

[Daseal]

Dude, did you read any of the articles about the Skins this year? Lloyd has psychological problems that go way beyond his ability as a player, and as the Post pointed out in one of their post-season exposes, exceed anything a coach can help him with. The belief is that he needs professional help.

I find this interesting. Up until mid season this board was exploding about what a great character Lloyd was. Super supportive in the media, not getting the ball but still a team player, etc etc. Personally, I feel Lloyd could be a great receiver. There were times where Lloyd was open and didn't get the ball, and there were times where he dropped it. The problem is, it's hard to throw to a receiver once every 3 weeks and expect him to be productive. I don't remember which game it was, but there was one game where the first 6-8 passes were thrown at Lloyd, he caught every one and made decent gains. Yet after that we totally abandoned him.

I find it interesting that he's a bad character all of a sudden. I still go back to the Chris Cooley interview on EITM when he said the locker room guys love Lloyd, and a lot of the problems stem from him wearing a hate that said **** in big letters on it. That hat didn't sit well with Gibbs, directly after that we're hearing he's awful in the locker room?

I think the guy could be great. Like everyone else he has a year in the system under his belt. He could be our most productive WR. We need to use his talents, give him the jump balls. I love Lloyd's ability, and since we went after him and ARE instead of a possession receiver, we need to use his leaping ability as a replacement for the big body type guy.

[RedskinPete]

Originally Posted by That Guy

wow, before pitifully attempting to call me out, why don't YOU try shedding some insight on why you made this ridiculous thread about why he ISN'T a bust since that's the widely held view of his career. If you want to make that assertion, what proof do you have that he isn't? like YOU went to every game and seen him get this separation.

I can point to the fact that he had the WORST SEASON of ANY starting wide receiver in the history of the super bowl era as proof that he goes mia. your response?

you're making excuses for him without any proof. you implied that he's not a bust and then link to a single catch on youtube follow by some retarded logic that only makes sense to you and contains no facts.

please, before asking someone to reply with actual insight, make sure you thread isn't completely worthless, and that you apply the same standards to your own posts.

hypocrite.

My take on Lloyd was not such a good season. But a bust NO!!! That is yet to be seen. If you put S.Moss numbers up against what he did the year before he didn't do so well in 06. The fact is changing QB's in the middle of a season to a guy[Campbell] that had no NFL games under his belt will hurt a O and the players on it. A matter of fact the O's strong point was running the ball not passing in 06. Now Lloyd along with the rest of the WR's and JC will be much better with a off season to work together along with preseason to get on the same page. Then we will really know if Lloyd or even Randle El[who didn't have great numbers as well] are bust!

r

[wbecker999]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I find this interesting. Up until mid season this board was exploding about what a great character Lloyd was. Super supportive in the media, not getting the ball but still a team player, etc etc. Personally, I feel Lloyd could be a great receiver. There were times where Lloyd was open and didn't get the ball, and there were times where he dropped it. The problem is, it's hard to throw to a receiver once every 3 weeks and expect him to be productive. I don't remember which game it was, but there was one game where the first 6-8 passes were thrown at Lloyd, he caught every one and made decent gains. Yet after that we totally abandoned him.

I find it interesting that he's a bad character all of a sudden. I still go back to the Chris Cooley interview on EITM when he said the locker room guys love Lloyd, and a lot of the problems stem from him wearing a hate that said **** in big letters on it. That hat didn't sit well with Gibbs, directly after that we're hearing he's awful in the locker room?

I think the guy could be great. Like everyone else he has a year in the system under his belt. He could be our most productive WR. We need to use his talents, give him the jump balls. I love Lloyd's ability, and since we went after him and ARE instead of a possession receiver, we need to use his leaping ability as a replacement for the big body type guy.

well said

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I find it interesting that he's a bad character all of a sudden. I still go back to the Chris Cooley interview on EITM when he said the locker room guys love Lloyd, and a lot of the problems stem from him wearing a hate that said **** in big letters on it. That hat didn't sit well with Gibbs, directly after that we're hearing he's awful in the locker room?

I agree that early on everyone loved him and thought, essentially, "Wow - what a great team guy. Those reports out of SF must be wrong [OR] SF is so screwed up, of course he got a bad rap." Then more than one source reported BL being difficult and having issues in the locker room. Then the big argument with El on the sideline and other sideline blow-ups.

While, the hat may have been an issue, I seriously doubt that JG would bench a productive receiver for that issue alone. JG may have taken him I aside and reminded him that "hey, this is a family entertainment league". I know u think JG has a christian bias that affects his football decisions, I would suggest, however, that he wants football players first. If they happen to be christians, all the better in JG's opinion. JG has always been about winning and, as evidenced from the first time around, he will use/play and deal with football players whose bent is different then his. (ex. John Riggins, D. Manley).

As to the "sudden" turn of opinion on Lloyd, it may also have taken six months of playing with him to realize he was a dick. Perhaps, just perhaps, there wasn't some sinister christian plot to bench and carry out a character assasination on Lloyd. Perhaps, just perhaps, it just took that long for his true colors to come out.

Lighten up Daseal, baby.

[#56fanatic]

10 million dollars up front, 30 million dollar contract extension, and no TD's, as the #2 receiver on the team. Now, however you want to look at it , that classifies his first year with the team a BUST. I dont care who the QB is. There are 4th and 5th string receivers catching TD's that may get a ball thrown their way 1 our of 2 or 3 games. I think ole B. Lloyd needs to come down a notch and realize he is not the star he thinks he is. No doubt the guy has talent. Speed, and hands that seem to be pretty damn good. He should be owning #2 or #3 corners in this league. Until he gets this attitude of "why me?" out of his head, he could be a productive WR for us. Santana Moss should help the guy out. Hopefully Joe's little talk and discipline at the end of the year turned the light on for the guy. There is a chance this offense could really put some points and numbers up if they all work together and not so caught up in getting the ball. They have to realize Santana is going to get most of the balls, but this offense will spread it out if the guys get open.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

cue the laugh track.

Dude, did you read any of the articles about the Skins this year? Lloyd has psychological problems that go way beyond his ability as a player, and as the Post pointed out in one of their post-season exposes, exceed anything a coach can help him with. The belief is that he needs professional help.

Do you remember him being demoted for throwing his helmet during the Atlanta game? What about when he let a touchdown pass sail through his arms and then had the audacity to blame it on Campbell? Did you read about the way that he alienated everyone on the team, from the stars down to the training staff? Did you hear Portis on John Thompson call him out for being a bad teammate?

I like most people on this board hope that Lloyd can turn things around next year and make an impact. But to suggest that, as of right now, he is anything other than a disaster is folly. And you will have to do better than suggesting that maybe it's the quarterback's fault to convince me or anyone else here otherwise.

Nicely put.

Wbecker - I am curious as to your response to the multiple reports and comments from players about Lloyd being a crappy teammate. Or are you of the great "JG christianity conspiracy" camp?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by wbecker999

When I called you out the "one catch doesn't define a career" was the only argument I was getting. I don't think that was an intelligent argument especially since my thread didn't imply that. Now if you are still defending your stupid argument that someone else already used before you go ahead.

As for my stupid logic . What's so hard to understand? Lloyd will not be a bust with a good quarterback and a better system.

My proof is I watched all of the redskins game last year. While watching them games I have seen Lloyd open several times especially deep with no one able to get him the deep ball.

Also his yards per catch average at 15.9 is among the best in the league topping Chad Johnson and Santana Moss.

And before you get on a roll about that fact I'm not claiming he is better than either of them players and I realize he had less catches.

here's what's stupid - I never made a one catch defines a career argument, that's you shadow boxing a phantom, and it's retarded.

I watched the same games you did, I saw a crappy receiver, and i put up stats to back that up instead of opinions with no real basis. He had less catches FOR A REASON - he's not that good. santana still produced, cooley still produced, and randle el still had some production compared to him.

can he turn it around? maybe, but as of right now, he's been a complete bust. And next time, before calling something stupid, how about something less worthless then the "because i said so" argument. there's nothing more idiotic and illogical than that. you asked for insight, yet you've provided none.

as for the character thing, go back to andre carter's first interview. when they asked him about brandon lloyd's character, he got REAL quiet. go and listen to portis's post season 980 interview where he called lloyd out for being a total b***h to everyone in the locker room. read the quotes from his interactions with saunders and his ability to always blame someone else when things don't go right. look at what a multitude of 49ers fans have been saying about his character over the last couple of years.

oh yeah, 15.9ypc isn't even close to being near the best in the league. devery henderson is at 23.3, bryant johnson 18.5, antonio bryant 18.3, nate washington 17.8, etc etc etc... even drew bennet (that raging ball of speed) is at 16.0ypc), so saying 15.9 is among the best in the league is just flat out wrong.

btw, rod gardner played with favre, brandon stokley played with peyton manning, neither managed to do much besides 1 good season.

[724Skinsfan]

I agree with the "not a bust YET" opinion. Last year, everybody except Betts and the O-line pretty much sucked in comparison to our expectations. I'm a nice guy and tend to think that rookies and first year players probably should get a first year pass. Hopefully we can expect much better things from a dozen or more Redskins starters in 2007.

[Hog1]

Maybe we can kill two birds here.
In honor of Joe2 and his all dominating Christian mentality (Warning: satire in progress) and to get the Indians off our backs, we could rename the team the................CRUSADERS, INQUISITORS??????

And by the way, unless it works for us from a dollar standpoint, we need to indoctrinate BL into the fold. He's a dumbass for wearing the hat, but he can be a dumbass and still produce.....lose the hat. If that doesn't work out kick his ass out