we still need a guard

[BrudLee]

I think if we are looking for a veteran stopgap (like Mulitato), we may as well wait for a post-June 1 cut (which Mulitato is, thanks to the NFL's "Wayback Machine" cutting policy). There will be a number of players who are good that will be available for vet min salaries that can start while youngsters are being groomed, so we don't need to get into a bidding war for a 30+ year old offensive lineman.

[70Chip]

If there is anyone who thinks they know about O-Line play:

How hard is it to switch from Tackle to Guard? Could most Tackles do it, could some, or is it difficult? I think Jacoby moved to guard at the end of his career. What I'm getting at is this: re-sign Wade and move Jansen to LG. Or move Wade to LG. Is this un-realistic? If so, why? It seems to me if you can play Tackle you should be able to play Guard.

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

If there is anyone who thinks they know about O-Line play:

How hard is it to switch from Tackle to Guard? Could most Tackles do it, could some, or is it difficult? I think Jacoby moved to guard at the end of his career. What I'm getting at is this: re-sign Wade and move Jansen to LG. Or move Wade to LG. Is this un-realistic? If so, why? It seems to me if you can play Tackle you should be able to play Guard.

I think if they did this I would keep Jansen at Tackle and move Wade to Guard - that way we only have 1 new player on the starting line and less disruption on building continuity.

I believe if Wade does not get a large contract from some other team I think it would be in the Redskins best interest to sign him as a backup tackle and get the guard from elsewhere - the main reason being is both Samuels and Jansen are getting up in years and both have had some injuries and this would provide solid depth in case one of them goes down - is it realistic to expect both Samuels and Jansen to stay healthy the entire year for 2 seasons in a row?

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Bill B

I think if they did this I would keep Jansen at Tackle and move Wade to Guard - that way we only have 1 new player on the starting line and less disruption on building continuity.

I believe if Wade does not get a large contract from some other team I think it would be in the Redskins best interest to sign him as a backup tackle and get the guard from elsewhere - the main reason being is both Samuels and Jansen are getting up in years and both have had some injuries and this would provide solid depth in case one of them goes down - is it realistic to expect both Samuels and Jansen to stay healthy the entire year for 2 seasons in a row?

The team is in the process of preparing a contract for Todd Wade presently. The numbers in that contract will give us a pretty good idea as to what his assignment with the team will be. The initial figures beindg discussed far excede those of a back-up RT. We should know more in the next couple days........Stay Tuned

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

If there is anyone who thinks they know about O-Line play:

How hard is it to switch from Tackle to Guard? Could most Tackles do it, could some, or is it difficult? I think Jacoby moved to guard at the end of his career. What I'm getting at is this: re-sign Wade and move Jansen to LG. Or move Wade to LG. Is this un-realistic? If so, why? It seems to me if you can play Tackle you should be able to play Guard.

tackles are supposed to be better than guards, and need more foot speed/agility to turn the corner vs DEs, whereas OGs just kinda need to stand there in space.

they're still different positions and take a while to adjust to, but, in general, most decent OTs could play OG relatively well.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

If there is anyone who thinks they know about O-Line play:

How hard is it to switch from Tackle to Guard? Could most Tackles do it, could some, or is it difficult? I think Jacoby moved to guard at the end of his career. What I'm getting at is this: re-sign Wade and move Jansen to LG. Or move Wade to LG. Is this un-realistic? If so, why? It seems to me if you can play Tackle you should be able to play Guard.

As I understand it, some offensive lineman talked about this once, it's not hard to switch really from Tackle to Guard. What's hard is being asked to move from one side of the line to another. It's like batting right all your life and then one day coach says "swing lefty today." Your stance gets all out of wack.

According to this lineman, I think maybe it was Ogden, a left tackle is more likely to have success switching to left guard then he would switching to right tackle, even though you'd think that wouldn't be the case. .

[Crazyhorse1]

I've heard talk of moving Jansen to left guard and Todd Wade to right tackle. There are two questions that need to be answered: is Todd Wade still good enough? Can Jensen make the switch? If both answers are in the affirmative, it would seem to me that we could save big bucks by only shopping for a backup. I'd like to see virtually all of the spending go to the defense and #6 used for a DE and our second pick used to find a DT to compete with Golston.

[EXoffender]

We have some of the best OL in the league. Just like we plugged Dockery in there as a rookie and didn't miss a beat, we will do it again. We should be able to draft a top five DT or DE at number six but, if we trade down to aquire another pick to draft a G, perhaps we won't be able to draft a difference maker DT or DE like Branch or Jamaal Anderson are a lock to be.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Would that it wee so that the Redskins had "some of the best OL in the league". Sadly, that just doesn't hold up to rational analysis.

Is Rabach one of the top ten starting centers in the NFL? I doubt it. He may be in the top ten in the NFC, but even that is debatable. There are 32 starting centers; he's below 15 on the list.

Randy Thomas is a solid offensive guard. Is he one of the outstanding guards in the league? No. In fact, he's not one of the top three offensive guards in the NFC East. He's better than average and a fine player, but "one of the best" he is not.

Chris Samuels is one of the top ten left tackles in the NFL. He isn't nearly as good as all of his Pro-Bowl appearances might lead you to believe he is. He's not THE dominant left tackle in the NFC. But he's very good.

Jon Jansen used to be the best OL on the Skins but injuries - and maybe Father Time - have reduced his effectivness for the past two years. If it was "injuries" that did him in, we should see a huge improvement from that side of the OL next year; it it was Father Time, things will only get worse. I don't know which one it was and no one will really know until the actual season - not the exhibition season - begins.

Bottom Line: The Skins OL is OK; there are more than a few that are worse and there are more than a few that are better. And blind faith in Joe Bugeol to "work his magic" is just that; blind faith. He's been here for 3 seasons and the OL is only marginally better now than it was in his first season.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Would that it wee so that the Redskins had "some of the best OL in the league". Sadly, that just doesn't hold up to rational analysis.

They were statistically at least a top 7 line in the league last year.

Is Rabach one of the top ten starting centers in the NFL? I doubt it. He may be in the top ten in the NFC, but even that is debatable. There are 32 starting centers; he's below 15 on the list.

Top 10? Easy. Gibbs praises the guy every chance he gets, and looking at their production the last two years, I am buying what he is selling.

Randy Thomas is a solid offensive guard. Is he one of the outstanding guards in the league? No. In fact, he's not one of the top three offensive guards in the NFC East. He's better than average and a fine player, but "one of the best" he is not.

Before Thomas' leg was broken, he was considered the best lineman on the team (that is according to Troy Aikman). I guess you have both of Philly's ahead of him because Dallas' line is comical and the Giants just blew their's up. I completely disagree.

Chris Samuels is one of the top ten left tackles in the NFL. He isn't nearly as good as all of his Pro-Bowl appearances might lead you to believe he is. He's not THE dominant left tackle in the NFC. But he's very good.

We will agree to disagree. I will go with the 4 pro bowls voted on by his peers.

Jon Jansen used to be the best OL on the Skins but injuries - and maybe Father Time - have reduced his effectivness for the past two years. If it was "injuries" that did him in, we should see a huge improvement from that side of the OL next year; it it was Father Time, things will only get worse. I don't know which one it was and no one will really know until the actual season - not the exhibition season - begins.

Jansen has never been better than Samuels. He isn't as good as he used to be but you cannot deny the production of the unit overall.

Bottom Line: The Skins OL is OK; there are more than a few that are worse and there are more than a few that are better. And blind faith in Joe Bugeol to "work his magic" is just that; blind faith. He's been here for 3 seasons and the OL is only marginally better now than it was in his first season.

The record did not show it but statistically they were one of the best in the league last year. They ran it down everybody's throat and gave up very few sacks even with Brunell starting several games. Feel free to offer up the evidence behind your analysis because it contradicts the year end analysis that I read.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Would that it wee so that the Redskins had "some of the best OL in the league". Sadly, that just doesn't hold up to rational analysis.

Is Rabach one of the top ten starting centers in the NFL? I doubt it. He may be in the top ten in the NFC, but even that is debatable. There are 32 starting centers; he's below 15 on the list.

Randy Thomas is a solid offensive guard. Is he one of the outstanding guards in the league? No. In fact, he's not one of the top three offensive guards in the NFC East. He's better than average and a fine player, but "one of the best" he is not.

Chris Samuels is one of the top ten left tackles in the NFL. He isn't nearly as good as all of his Pro-Bowl appearances might lead you to believe he is. He's not THE dominant left tackle in the NFC. But he's very good.

Jon Jansen used to be the best OL on the Skins but injuries - and maybe Father Time - have reduced his effectivness for the past two years. If it was "injuries" that did him in, we should see a huge improvement from that side of the OL next year; it it was Father Time, things will only get worse. I don't know which one it was and no one will really know until the actual season - not the exhibition season - begins.

Bottom Line: The Skins OL is OK; there are more than a few that are worse and there are more than a few that are better. And blind faith in Joe Bugeol to "work his magic" is just that; blind faith. He's been here for 3 seasons and the OL is only marginally better now than it was in his first season.

Where to start here?

Well first off all of your evaluations look more like opinions than anything even though they are presented as facts.

First I'd like to know what you're basing your evaluations on? For example why do you think Rabach is below average? Why are other guards better than Thomas?

Second I'd like to know how you can make a statement like "I don't know which one it was and no one will really know until the actual season" about Jansen and then state later "But they do need 5 guys who are all above average at their positions and that's not what they have now." I thought you said you didn't know what Jansen was? Your last statement contrdicts that.

Thirdly you seem to have completely ignored the old saying about the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

And fourthly I am astounded by the statement "He's been here for 3 seasons and the OL is only marginally better now than it was in his first season". Have you lost your mind. I distinctly remember how poor our line was just 3 years ago. To me, not being able to distinguish between the quality of our line this past season and just 3 years ago shows eaither a total lack of objectivity or just a plain old lack of understanding. It makes everything you say on this matter totally worthless when you make a statement like.

And say all you want about Burgundy colored glasses but not everyone wears those. There are a lot of people on this site who can be objective and you seem to always brand someone who disagrees as "wearing" these metphorical glasses. Could it be that as colored as some people's outlook is based on emotion yours is colored exactly opposite because your emotions lead you to disagree and be negative and pessimistic?

[XXVI]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Where to start here?

Well first off all of your evaluations look more like opinions than anything even though they are presented as facts.

First I'd like to know what you're basing your evaluations on? For example why do you think Rabach is below average? Why are other guards better than Thomas?

Second I'd like to know how you can make a statement like "I don't know which one it was and no one will really know until the actual season" about Jansen and then state later "But they do need 5 guys who are all above average at their positions and that's not what they have now." I thought you said you didn't know what Jansen was? Your last statement contrdicts that.

Thirdly you seem to have completely ignored the old saying about the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

And fourthly I am astounded by the statement "He's been here for 3 seasons and the OL is only marginally better now than it was in his first season". Have you lost your mind. I distinctly remember how poor our line was just 3 years ago. To me, not being able to distinguish between the quality of our line this past season and just 3 years ago shows eaither a total lack of objectivity or just a plain old lack of understanding. It makes everything you say on this matter totally worthless when you make a statement like.

And say all you want about Burgundy colored glasses but not everyone wears those. There are a lot of people on this site who can be objective and you seem to always brand someone who disagrees as "wearing" these metphorical glasses. Could it be that as colored as some people's outlook is based on emotion yours is colored exactly opposite because your emotions lead you to disagree and be negative and pessimistic?

Marginally better? HAHA look at 'Career Backup' Patrick Ramsey! The OL was the ENTIRE REASON he doesn't nor ever will have a starting role in the NFL. The OL was HORRIFIC before Bugel. OMFG this Sportscurmegon guy needs an evaluation of his own lol.... Bugel could make your Mom, Dad, Baby brother, baby sister, and YOU be a better OL than most of the NFC. Get bent lol.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by XXVI

Marginally better? HAHA look at 'Career Backup' Patrick Ramsey! The OL was the ENTIRE REASON he doesn't nor ever will have a starting role in the NFL. The OL was HORRIFIC before Bugel. OMFG this Sportscurmegon guy needs an evaluation of his own lol.... Bugel could make your Mom, Dad, Baby brother, baby sister, and YOU be a better OL than most of the NFC. Get bent lol.

Hey buddy...um...

I think you agree with me so please don't use my post as a quote when you are going off on someone else.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Would that it wee so that the Redskins had "some of the best OL in the league". Sadly, that just doesn't hold up to rational analysis.

Is Rabach one of the top ten starting centers in the NFL? I doubt it. He may be in the top ten in the NFC, but even that is debatable. There are 32 starting centers; he's below 15 on the list.

Randy Thomas is a solid offensive guard. Is he one of the outstanding guards in the league? No. In fact, he's not one of the top three offensive guards in the NFC East. He's better than average and a fine player, but "one of the best" he is not.

Chris Samuels is one of the top ten left tackles in the NFL. He isn't nearly as good as all of his Pro-Bowl appearances might lead you to believe he is. He's not THE dominant left tackle in the NFC. But he's very good.

Jon Jansen used to be the best OL on the Skins but injuries - and maybe Father Time - have reduced his effectivness for the past two years. If it was "injuries" that did him in, we should see a huge improvement from that side of the OL next year; it it was Father Time, things will only get worse. I don't know which one it was and no one will really know until the actual season - not the exhibition season - begins.

Bottom Line: The Skins OL is OK; there are more than a few that are worse and there are more than a few that are better. And blind faith in Joe Bugeol to "work his magic" is just that; blind faith. He's been here for 3 seasons and the OL is only marginally better now than it was in his first season.

Samuels gets no respect. The guy played great football last year.

[dmek25]

i kind of disagree. not with your analysis, but with the results. i believe you do not need 5 pro bowlers, instead 5 guys that will do what needs to be done. without seeking glory, and not afraid to do the dirty work, the things that go unnoticed.