Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Which is precisely why I do not understand why Vinny is our whipping boy. I'm sure he deserves some credit for some decisions and some blame for others, but until we know concretely how things operate, we can't say he is to blame or deserves credit for our team's current state.

I think it's fair to say that Cerrato was the whipping boy because before Gibbs got here, Cerrato was the only "football man" in the front office who had any clout. It was he and Dan Snyder. Snyder didn't know football, so to an extent he gets a pass because he shouldn't be expected to understand the nuances of the NFL. That's why he hired Cerrato.

Now that Gibbs is calling the shots, (we assume anyway) the field gets muddier and the beauracracy is as wide as it is thick -- Gregg Williams gets a say, Saunders might have a say, then there's Cerrato's input, and Snyder gets squeezed in there too.

Minus the Schottenheimer year, Cerrato took the blame because he was the most visible, "football knowledgeable" guy in the front office. If he doesn't deserve the heat he has taken, it's only because the heat is more evenly distributed now than it ever was before.

[RobH4413]

congrats on 5000 sheriff by the way.

[dmek25]

sheriff, you are cordially invited to join me over at my table at the 5000 thread club. sorry, members only

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Thanks guys. I didn't even notice that I hit 5,000 posts.

[GTripp0012]

I guess that makes me head of the 5,000 post kiddie table.

[offiss]

What did VC do on offense that was so great? Our entire offense is made up of free agents and trades for established NFL talent.

If he want's to be a real GM, or anyone else in the organization for that matter let them do it through the draft!

Jansen and Cooley and Samuels are the only drafted starters on offense, and I don't know if he was responsible for any of them.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by offiss

What did VC do on offense that was so great? Our entire offense is made up of free agents and trades for established NFL talent.

If he want's to be a real GM, or anyone else in the organization for that matter let them do it through the draft!

Jansen and Cooley and Samuels are the only drafted starters on offense, and I don't know if he was responsible for any of them.

But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.

Campbell will be the best QB in this division by 2008.

Write it down, lock it up.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Which is precisely why I do not understand why Vinny is our whipping boy. I'm sure he deserves some credit for some decisions and some blame for others, but until we know concretely how things operate, we can't say he is to blame or deserves credit for our team's current state.

What has Vinnie done in his career to warrant working for the Skins?
Vinnie has never built a winning team. He came from a SF team that was imploding with cap problems and overpaid players.
Sound familiar?
Now he has been part of the Redskins worst years in recent history.
While I do not lay all of the blame on Vinnie he has done nothing to warrant staying.
By the way QB Campbell was a Joe Gibbs pick all the way. Gibbs loved the way Campbell played at Auburn and Gibbs hand picked him.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Defensewins,

(1) What decisions that Vinny made do you disagree with so strongly?
(2) What personnel on our roster who received SB of at least $5M do you think we should not have picked up?
(3) What makes you so certain that Vinny didn't get Gibbs excited about Campbell? Are you just speculating?

I certainly understand if you are pissed about the Redskins recent history, but I have no idea why the blame for our poor record lays at Vinny's feet.

As for San Fran, I believe they had a damn good record during Vinny's tenure.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Defensewins,

(1) What decisions that Vinny made do you disagree with so strongly?
(2) What personnel on our roster who received SB of at least $5M do you think we should not have picked up?
(3) What makes you so certain that Vinny didn't get Gibbs excited about Campbell? Are you just speculating?

I certainly understand if you are pissed about the Redskins recent history, but I have no idea why the blame for our poor record lays at Vinny's feet.

As for San Fran, I believe they had a damn good record during Vinny's tenure.

Defensewins can certainly answer for himself, but all you have to do is look at the state of the Redskins since Cerrato has been here. Regardless of the inner-workings of the front office structure, Cerrato has had his hand in the decisions that make the Redskins one of the perennial league-leaders in dead cap money, often with the highest payrolls, but with a 41-55 overall record and only one playoff season in six years.

Whatever his role was with the 49ers, he came to them when their franchise was already established, and we can all see the state he left them in.

[skinsfan_nn]

Vinny is what's known as a "useful idiot". He catches the blame, but it only deflects from the bigger problem: this team has a horrible organizational philosophy under Danny Boy, and no "real" GM would have enough clout to stand up and go toe to toe with our fantasy football owner and too many overpaid, big-ego coaches.

It would be nice to think we could achieve what we did when JKC had the team with Joe and Bobby B., because the RESULTS ARE WHAT WE ARE CHASIN! Who cares about all the kiddie squables in that era?

Vinny is incompetent, but there's no point in replacing him. Danny Boy would only hire another yes-man. Vinny is no more than a puppet.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Defensewins,

(1) What decisions that Vinny made do you disagree with so strongly?
(2) What personnel on our roster who received SB of at least $5M do you think we should not have picked up?
(3) What makes you so certain that Vinny didn't get Gibbs excited about Campbell? Are you just speculating?

I certainly understand if you are pissed about the Redskins recent history, but I have no idea why the blame for our poor record lays at Vinny's feet.

As for San Fran, I believe they had a damn good record during Vinny's tenure.

the Redskins are now 39-51 in seasons in which Vinny Cerrato has had an influence in the front office (excluding 1999, when the roster was set before Snyder took over, and 2001, the Martyball year when Vinny was banished to ESPNews.

Below is from a Washington Time Article by David Elfin that gives a little background of Vinny C's during his SF days, just so you do not think I am making this stuff up.


"San Francisco's drafts became noticeably less productive after Cerrato was promoted to director of player personnel in 1995. The defending Super Bowl champions traded their first-round picks in 1995 and 1996 to move up to select receiver J.J. Stokes, who took three seasons to prove his worth. And while receiver Terrell Owens, a third-rounder in 1996, has become a star, that year's second-rounder, Israel Ifeanyi, was a bust, as is quarterback Jim Druckenmiller, the first-rounder from 1997.....
Other than Owens, 1997 third-rounder Greg Clark and 1998 top choice R.W. McQuarters are the 49ers' only other sure starters from Cerrato's final four drafts. In contrast, the Redskins' drafts from 1995 to 1998 under the much-criticized Charley Casserly yielded 10 projected starters for 1999. And yet, Snyder is replacing Casserly -- who resigned yesterday effective Sept. 3 -- with Cerrato.....
The Redskins had a respected general manager, Charley Casserly, whose astute moves set the 'Skins up to get the second and third picks in the last draft. But Snyder didn't like Casserly, so he fired him and hired Vinny Cerrato, who had undermined the San Francisco 49ers as their player personnel director. The salary cap gets the blame for most of the 49ers' problems, but an equal problem was their poor drafting during Cerrato's time, highlighted (lowlighted?) by his push for QB Jim Druckenmiller in the first round of the 1997 draft. The slow-moving and slow-thinking Druckenmiller was woefully unsuited for the 49ers' offensive system and was dumped by the team before the start of the '99 season....
The quality of San Francisco's free agent signees under Cerrato also slipped ...with cornerback Antonio Langham and defensive end Gabe Wilkins failing to match the productivity of previous arrivals.... "

Does this sound familiar? Bad drafts. Bad FA signings? Bad W-L record.
Same shit..different team!
You still want to keep this guy? Why?

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.

Have to agree with you there. I'd just really like to see a whole draft one day. Something thats not just a pick or 2 on day one. Anyway I think there are plenty of people on this board who feel the same way about that.

[skinsguy]

There are plenty of very good picks we have gotten with the current administration. SGG has already named some very good examples. This FO is, overall, doing a much better job. I know a lot of you guys want perfection, but if you want an ever year winner, you're going to have to be patient.