Pastabelly bashes J. Gibbs

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Oh, Joe Gibbs is trying to fix the salary cap mess? I didn't realize that with all of the high priced free agents he's gone after (minus this year). Snyder made mistakes far before Gibbs came back, everything points to him having very little say in the overall player acquisition process. The people who bring in these players are Gibbs and to a lesser extent G Will. Gibbs has been in "win now" mode since he got here (notice lack of any draft picks, trading up every year, etc). Yes, we made the playoffs one year, riding the coat tails of an awesome G Williams defense. I think it's hard to mark that up to Gibbs pathetic offense.

I've given Gibbs three years and I'm not impressed. I'll give him one more reluctantly, but people need to stop living in the glory years and look at Gibbs stint for what it is now. Erase his name and type in Joe Blow everyone here would be calling for his head because of the multiple bad decisions and basic lack of winning.

Which sample size are you going to trust? A ten year stint resulting in unparalleled success, or a three year sample resulting in mixed results? Which one would you draw your conclusion from?

[Daseal]

Your sample size reference there is awful. I can't think of a single profession that changes as much as pro football. How long was Gibbs gone again? No one can take away what he did in DC all those years ago, but this isn't the same man. This is a completely different era, and from what I can see he still doesn't get it quite yet.

If you want to judge him on his whole body of work even with that huge gap, go for it. However, I'm judging him on two different works. His first stint, and this stint. If you want to keep a coach around forever and keep losing because he used to be awesome, go for it. Personally, I'd like to not watch a losing team every year. That means a relatively young coach who can start grooming the team in the right direction and not be forced into "you must win now" type of mentality.

[Longtimefan]

unfortunately, Gibbs does not have a magic wand, nor has he been able to bottle his former success. However, despite the critics, I can't think of anyone better at this time I'd rather have coaching the team.

[skinsfan_nn]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Your sample size reference there is awful. I can't think of a single profession that changes as much as pro football. How long was Gibbs gone again? No one can take away what he did in DC all those years ago, but this isn't the same man. This is a completely different era, and from what I can see he still doesn't get it quite yet.

If you want to judge him on his whole body of work even with that huge gap, go for it. However, I'm judging him on two different works. His first stint, and this stint. If you want to keep a coach around forever and keep losing because he used to be awesome, go for it. Personally, I'd like to not watch a losing team every year. That means a relatively young coach who can start grooming the team in the right direction and not be forced into "you must win now" type of mentality.

First of all name one team that thinks it's OK TO LOSS NOW? OK BESIDES THE...RAIDERS
Of course he's tryin to win now....why wait till latter. I think last year was a huge suprise to all coming off a playoff birth in 05. Due to alot of key injuries and yes some bad personel desissions, it is what it is.

Back to Joe. This is what makes Joe the GREAT COACH he is, being able to come back from this type of advertisity, and moving the team to being better than anyone thought.

STAY TUNED. HE WILL GET IT DONE!

[Daseal]

I hope you're right, but I doubt it. Fine, it's not okay to loss(sic) now in any situation. But there's a difference between winning now and building a team. Winning now means he's putting something together which chances are we'll have to break apart shortly after he leaves because we can't afford it. Constantly moving up (Campbell, Rocky, etc, etc), getting huge free agents, etc.

Say what you will about the raiders, but they had the #3 overall D in the league and they were on the field 50% more than the #1 and #2 defenses. So their defense is nasty, if they put up 14 points a game, they'll do just fine.

We all have our opinions, but I think a lot of people are blinded by the legend of Joe Gibbs and fail to accurately describe what he is NOW.

[ncskinsfanec]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I hope you're right, but I doubt it. Fine, it's not okay to loss(sic) now in any situation. But there's a difference between winning now and building a team. Winning now means he's putting something together which chances are we'll have to break apart shortly after he leaves because we can't afford it. Constantly moving up (Campbell, Rocky, etc, etc), getting huge free agents, etc.

Say what you will about the raiders, but they had the #3 overall D in the league and they were on the field 50% more than the #1 and #2 defenses. So their defense is nasty, if they put up 14 points a game, they'll do just fine.

We all have our opinions, but I think a lot of people are blinded by the legend of Joe Gibbs and fail to accurately describe what he is NOW.

I see on your profile that you are only 23. I give you the benefit of the doubt for your comments. You're just simply not old enough to remember what joy and excitement Gibbs brought the first time around. That's why people still believe in him even after 3 indifferent years so far into his comeback. I always say we just don't realize how lucky we are to have him, one of the truest legends the game has ever produced.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Oh, Joe Gibbs is trying to fix the salary cap mess? I didn't realize that with all of the high priced free agents he's gone after (minus this year). Snyder made mistakes far before Gibbs came back, everything points to him having very little say in the overall player acquisition process. The people who bring in these players are Gibbs and to a lesser extent G Will. Gibbs has been in "win now" mode since he got here (notice lack of any draft picks, trading up every year, etc). Yes, we made the playoffs one year, riding the coat tails of an awesome G Williams defense. I think it's hard to mark that up to Gibbs pathetic offense.

I've given Gibbs three years and I'm not impressed. I'll give him one more reluctantly, but people need to stop living in the glory years and look at Gibbs stint for what it is now. Erase his name and type in Joe Blow everyone here would be calling for his head because of the multiple bad decisions and basic lack of winning.

I feel your pain and believe me the last 13 or so years have been very little fun for any of us. I don't think we should keep him around forever but keep in mind the diffenece between 10-6 and 6-10 is often seconds or inches. 1 playoff appearance out of three years back is not what we want, but it's not terrible either. If JG hasn't turned this around by the end of his contract (2 more years) then I will be on your side of the fence in this argument....patience my young Padawan

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Your sample size reference there is awful. I can't think of a single profession that changes as much as pro football. How long was Gibbs gone again? No one can take away what he did in DC all those years ago, but this isn't the same man. This is a completely different era, and from what I can see he still doesn't get it quite yet.

If you want to judge him on his whole body of work even with that huge gap, go for it. However, I'm judging him on two different works. His first stint, and this stint. If you want to keep a coach around forever and keep losing because he used to be awesome, go for it. Personally, I'd like to not watch a losing team every year. That means a relatively young coach who can start grooming the team in the right direction and not be forced into "you must win now" type of mentality.

Honestly, what coach wouldn't be losing with the roster we have right now?

Gibbs is the same guy he was in his first stint. I believe it's reasonable to say that there are a lot more good coaches around today than there were during his first stint, and thus the edge he gives is not nearly as great, but he hasn't exactly forgotten how to work hard in the time he was away.

Game is simple really for a coach, have the best players, make the right decisions, hope you win the game. The difference in factor between the leagues best coach and worst coach may not even be enough to decide even a game over a 16 game season.

Maybe Gibbs was just a guy who was in the right place at the right time in the 80's, but certainly he is no worse off as a coach now then then.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Honestly, what coach wouldn't be losing with the roster we have right now?

Gibbs is the same guy he was in his first stint. I believe it's reasonable to say that there are a lot more good coaches around today than there were during his first stint, and thus the edge he gives is not nearly as great, but he hasn't exactly forgotten how to work hard in the time he was away.

Game is simple really for a coach, have the best players, make the right decisions, hope you win the game. The difference in factor between the leagues best coach and worst coach may not even be enough to decide even a game over a 16 game season.

Maybe Gibbs was just a guy who was in the right place at the right time in the 80's, but certainly he is no worse off as a coach now then then.

He's not the same guy at all. In 04 he was terrible and if you ask me that's when we should have had an OC that had at least been calling plays in the NFL.. Sorry but you don't walk away from the NFL for 11 years and all of a sudden come back and start running an offense. And the results showed. If we had any kind of offense in 04 we would have been a playoff team. He was running HS offense in 04. Totally didn't know how to use Portis at all. His clock mgt is also really bad. That's been a problem it seems all three years. Constant calling of TO's is real bad. Conservative play calling hasn't helped either.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by SonnySamFrank

What a jerk!


Then again, money doesn't always translate into success.

At about $5.7 million per year, Gibbs is one of the NFL's top five highest-paid coaches, but it hasn't bought him a fourth Super Bowl ring. Three seasons into his second incarnation as the Redskins' coach, Gibbs has, to this point, proven to be an ordinary Joe, with a record of 22-28 and just one postseason victory.


Full Story Link:
ESPN.com - NFL - Pasquarelli: Why coach? It just "gets in your blood"

Parcels had no playoff wins in his 4 years in Dallas. No one ever takes a shot at him though...

[mike340]

I have confidence in people who have had success in most of their prior endeavors. I recall reading that Gibbs had a lot of success in things besides football before joining the Redskins. (I'm sorry, but I don't remember what. Can someone elaborate?) Then he was successful with the Redskins. After that he went to Nascar. It took him a while to learn the ropes, but he ended up winning two titles. Now he's back. As in Nascar, it might take him a while to get back up to speed, but I would be very surprised if he doesn't manage to get this team going in the right direction.

I think a lot depends on Shawn Springs. When he went down last year no one was in position. For those who think he won't play most of the season, here's his stats for games played over his career from nflplayers.com (excluding last year).
'98: 10
'99,'00,'01: 16 each year
'02: 15
'03: 12
'04, '05: 15

Last year they discovered he needed surgery just before the season, so of course they lost him for much of the year. I would expect he would play 12-15 games the coming year and the defense should return to their accustomed level.

Last year the defense destroyed the team. But they should be okay, since picking up Smoot gives them a shot if Springs is out. Remember, 2 years ago they only lost one regular-season game by more than a TD, and that was without the offensive weapons of now. I'll give Gibbs a mulligan for last year. Let's see what happens this year, when the offense should be able to get on the field more than once a quarter.

(I'm sorry if the last part of this is disjointed; my 7-month-old daughter is screaming in my ear. She'll become a Redskins fan yet!)

[81forHOF]

I'm sure he will eat those words........plus a whole lot other stuff, too.

[skinsfan_nn]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

He's not the same guy at all. In 04 he was terrible and if you ask me that's when we should have had an OC that had at least been calling plays in the NFL.. Sorry but you don't walk away from the NFL for 11 years and all of a sudden come back and start running an offense. And the results showed. If we had any kind of offense in 04 we would have been a playoff team. He was running HS offense in 04. Totally didn't know how to use Portis at all. His clock mgt is also really bad. That's been a problem it seems all three years. Constant calling of TO's is real bad. Conservative play calling hasn't helped either.

No kiddin. In 04 it was a big learning curve, as we all saw. So what, that was to be expected.

How did you like 05????? Haven't seen REAL SKIN FANS like that in many years, a playoff birth had this town going crazy, when all the writers/ TARDS said we couldn't get there!

Last year, MANY INJURIES! some FA moves that were bad and an overall horrible defense, and a new offensive cord., flash back remember how Al's first year went in KC? How bout his second? Yea, that's the one folks remember.

To sum this up people that have been around Joe Gibbs long enough understand, when the chips are down he's the man for the job PERIOD! There is NOBOBY out there any better to have control of this football team, espicially now! If anybody can get it done, HE'S THE MAN!

There is no fluke to THREE SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONSHIPS AND THE HALL OF FAME! He will get the job done that he started.....FACTOID!

[ncskinsfanec]

Originally Posted by skinsfan_nn

No kiddin. In 04 it was a big learning curve, as we all saw. So what, that was to be expected.

How did you like 05????? Haven't seen REAL SKIN FANS like that in many years, a playoff birth had this town going crazy, when all the writers/ TARDS said we couldn't get there!

Last year, MANY INJURIES! some FA moves that were bad and an overall horrible defense, and a new offensive cord., flash back remember how Al's first year went in KC? How bout his second? Yea, that's the one folks remember.

To sum this up people that have been around Joe Gibbs long enough understand, when the chips are down he's the man for the job PERIOD! There is NOBOBY out there any better to have control of this football team, espicially now! If anybody can get it done, HE'S THE MAN!

There is no fluke to THREE SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONSHIPS AND THE HALL OF FAME! He will get the job done that he started.....FACTOID!

Yes, the guy you were responding to failed to mention '05. I think Gibbs playcalling was great that season and the only reason why it wasn't as effective in the playoffs was due to injuries. I expect a big time bounce back next season, I will even go as so far to say 11 or 12 wins!

[Daseal]

Yes, every year we have injury problems, and the next year everything is grand. Sorry. Until I actually see something I'm not buying it. As I said, replace Gibbs with any other surname and I bet this is a drastically different discussion.

I hope you're referring to me not being a skins fan. Keep drinking the kool-aid buddy. I'm watching every game, go to as many as I can afford, and follow the skins religiously. Just because I try to do my best to see the skins for what they are, it doesn't mean I'm not a fan. I'm glad what we did in '05, however, as I mentioned before we rode our defense all the way, and Portis on the offensive side of the ball.

Say what you want. Winner winner winner. Over the last three year Gibbs has lost.

As far as this team having talent, what are you smoking? This team is loaded with talent. Certainly we don't have a ton of depth, and besides D line, I can't think of huge positions of need.