Rocky McIntosh

[SmootSmack]

Maybe it's on Lindsey to an extent. But isn't it (or is it) the responsibility of someone above Lindsey (Blache, Williams, Gibbs, Matty) to step in and say "Rocky's playing. You find a way to make it work" Or is that overstepping your bounds and not letting your subordinates do their job?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Maybe it's on Lindsey to an extent. But isn't it (or is it) the responsibility of someone above Lindsey (Blache, Williams, Gibbs, Matty) to step in and say "Rocky's playing. You find a way to make it work" Or is that overstepping your bounds and not letting your subordinates do their job?

Yeah, there is a fine line there. I think you could be right about the overstepping your bounds thing. Not to be cliche, but you lie in the bed you make. They hired Lindsey to oversee the LB's. Gibbs puts such a premium on veterans, and it's no secret G.Williams doesn't like to play rookies very much (Taylor, Rodgers, Rocky). But if you're the LB coach you tell the D. coordinator who should start. If Williams just says "NO," then what did they hire Lindsey for to begin with?

Obviously position coaches are very important. Look how our secondary regressed when Dewayne Walker left for UCLA (I know injuries played a role too). Hopefully we'll see the opposite effect with our LBs now that Lindsey is gone. Speaking of which, does anyone know anything about the new LB guy, Olividotti (sp)?

[Defensewins]

I am very dissapointed by this move and the coaches have really made a big mistake here. Make Rocky and Lemar battle it out all summer and preseason and name your starter in late August. This is very disrespectful to a proven veteran and good Redskin like Lemar and serves no purpose but to make Lemar want to leave. How can you give a position away? A player needs to earn it. This is becoming a pattern, Andre Carter was given the DE job on day 1 of becoming a redskin with out any work to earn it. Carter proceeded to have a poor 3/4 of a season in 2006.
I do not care how much money a guy is making...you play the players that prove it ON THE FIELD and give you the best chance to win. Not where they are drafted or how much you gave up to get him. That is why we sucked last year. You think we would have learned from last year. I hope this not a repeat of the Carter situation. Rocky better earn the starting job and do a good job.
What happened to the old fashioned way of earning a starting spot?

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I am very dissapointed by this move and the coaches have really made a big mistake here. Make Rocky and Lemar battle it out all summer and preseason and name your starter in late August. This is very disrespectful to a proven veteran and good Redskin like Lemar and serves no purpose but to make Lemar want to leave. How can you give a position away? A player needs to earn it. This is becoming a pattern, Andre Carter was given the DE job on day 1 of becoming a redskin with out any work to earn it. Carter proceeded to have a poor 3/4 of a season in 2006.
I do not care how much money a guy is making...you play the players that prove it ON THE FIELD and give you the best chance to win. Not where they are drafted or how much you gave up to get him. That is why we sucked last year. You think we would have learned from last year. I hope this not a repeat of the Carter situation. Rocky better earn the starting job and do a good job.
What happened to the old fashioned way of earning a starting spot?

i think you are missing the point here rocky should have been on the field in 2006 but wasnt for whatever reason and in the games he started he played well and he was drafted for this soul purpose to start at that position and lemar's versatility makes him able to play all 3 linebacker spots it wasnt a shot of disrespect it is just what he was drafted for look at the broncos last year 7-4 before cutler was put in you could say he hadnt earned it but that is what he was drafted for so that is what it is and they didnt make the playoffs so when you draft someone to do something you have to put them in eventually

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

i think you are missing the point here rocky should have been on the field in 2006 but wasnt for whatever reason and in the games he started he played well and he was drafted for this soul purpose to start at that position and lemar's versatility makes him able to play all 3 linebacker spots it wasnt a shot of disrespect it is just what he was drafted for look at the broncos last year 7-4 before cutler was put in you could say he hadnt earned it but that is what he was drafted for so that is what it is and they didnt make the playoffs so when you draft someone to do something you have to put them in eventually

You are missing my point. You will shoot yourself in the foot if you set your depth chart in May by where a player was drafted.
You play your best players regardless of pedigree and you let the players prove their worth on the field, not in a draft room.
In the 1981 draft, Mark may was the 1st round pick and top draft choice. Gibbs and Bugel benched May and instead started two young undrafted OL Joe Jacoby and Jeff Bostic and 3rd rounder Russ Grimm and used an old retred in George Starke in at May's position. Why? Because Starke was better than May at tht time and Starke gave us the better chance to win at that time. 1st round pick and top draft pick Mark may sat on the bench. May did not crack the starting line up for a couple of years later. That 1982 offensive line went on to win the super bowl with May on the bench 1983.

There are ton more examples:

In 1985 top draft pick CB Tory Nixon was a bust, but in that same draft 8th round pick Barry Wilburn became a starter, while not a great player he eventaully EARNED the starting job over an incomptent Tory Nixon.

In 1994 draft 8th round pick Gus Ferrotte became the better pro than 1st round pick Heath Shuler.

8th round pick OG Darryl Grant from tiny little Rice University was moved to DT and he started over our top pick in 1984 DT Bob Slater from Oklahoma. Slater never cracked the starting lineup and hurt his knee and was cut.
I could keep on going. There are a ton of examples.
Let the player prove it on the field. If Rocky comes in and gets a sack or interception or a several tackles behind he line of scrimmage, by all means start him! But that has not happened yet for whatever reason.

In today's Nfl with a salary cap and front office egos larger than ever, I guess you look bad if you start a lower drafted player over a higher drafted one. To them it means you made a mistake. Gibbs and Williams should not care and start whoever works best. That is a major problem with having your coach as your GM.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

You are missing my point. You will shoot yourself in the foot if you set your depth chart in May by where a player was drafted.
You play your best players regardless of pedigree and you let the players prove their worth on the field, not in a draft room.
In the 1981 draft, Mark may was the 1st round pick and top draft choice. Gibbs and Bugel benched May and instead started two young undrafted OL Joe Jacoby and Jeff Bostic and 3rd rounder Russ Grimm and used an old retred in George Starke in at May's position. Why? Because Starke was better than May at tht time and Starke gave us the better chance to win at that time. 1st round pick and top draft pick Mark may sat on the bench. May did not crack the starting line up for a couple of years later. That 1982 offensive line went on to win the super bowl with May on the bench 1983.

There are ton more examples:
In 1985 top draft pick CB Tory Nixon was a bust, but in that same draft 8th round pick Barry Wilburn became a starter, while not a great player he eventaully EARNED the starting job over an incomptent Tory Nixon.

In 1994 draft 8th round pick Gus Ferrotte became the better pro than 1st round pick Heath Shuler.

8th round pick OG Darryl Grant from tiny little Rice University was moved to DT and he started over our top pick in 1984 DT Bob Slater from Oklahoma. Slater never cracked the starting lineup and hurt his knee and was cut.
I could keep on going. There are a ton of examples.
Let the player prove it on the field. If Rocky comes in and gets a sack or interception or a several tackles behind he line of scrimmage, by all means start him! But that has not happened yet for whatever reason.

In today's Nfl with a salary cap and front office egos larger than ever, I guess you look bad if you start a lower drafted player over a higher drafted one. To them it means you made a mistake. Gibbs and Williams should not care and start whoever works best. That is a major problem with having your coach as your GM.

and there are a ton of examples of going the other way and they said rocky was going in as the starter that could change

[dblanch66]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

and there are a ton of examples of going the other way and they said rocky was going in as the starter that could change

Look up "devil's advocate" in the dictionary and Earthquake's picture will be there. You did miss his point, dude.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by dblanch66

Look up "devil's advocate" in the dictionary and Earthquake's picture will be there. You did miss his point, dude.

i know that the dictionary reference was not necessary and he missed my point i got his point the whole time

[GusFrerotte]

I don't see how Rocky can be the clear cut starter already. Marshall was the starter last season. Did Rocky look that good in the OTA to replace Lemar?I wouldn't announce a starter til after the preseason. I was thinking that would be the big "fight" for a starting position during preseason, but it looks like the die is cast already. Either way we can't lose, but it is stange how they can just say Rocky is the starter out of the blue.

[dmek25]

I'm not sure why any coach would anoint McIntosh the starter. let him win it, or lose it, in preseason

[GoSkins!]

What I read is that the team set the depth chart so that Rocky, Fletcher, and Washington are the number one guys. Lemar doesn't just have the chance to beat out Rocky for the starting job, he can beat out any of the three. He was told specifically that he would be able to compete for a starting job, not just Rocky's starting job. I'm sure Lemar is going to be used to push Rocky and Fletcher.

[Defensewins]

I think you push the LB's more if you make them all even and tell them the winner will start. The way Williams just did it, it gift wraps the job to Rocky with out a fight and is only really pushing Lemar to over throw the others. Not smart.
Go back to the old school way of proving you deserve to be the starter in camp and presaeson. Why suddenly do coaches worry about players egos? Back in the day coaches did not baby players.
One more thing, I am not sure why Lemar, who has busted his hump, been a succesfull starter for us in the past and been a great redskin getting the disrespect? The merit system is lost in this move. Does not send a good message to the players.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I think you push the LB's more if you make them all even and tell them the winner will start. The way Williams just did it, it gift wraps the job to Rocky with out a fight and is only really pushing Lemar to over throw the others. Not smart.
Go back to the old school way of proving you deserve to be the starter in camp and presaeson. Why suddenly do coaches worry about players egos? Back in the day coaches did not baby players.
One more thing, I am not sure why Lemar, who has busted his hump, been a succesfull starter for us in the past and been a great redskin getting the disrespect? The merit system is lost in this move. Does not send a good message to the players.

I think either way you look at it, it's not a bad problem to have. These guys are professional athletes and I doubt any feelings are hurt.

LeMar really seems like a class act. I believe Marshall will play in a lot of nickel and blitz packages anyway. I wouldn't get too caught up in Williams' starting line-up, he does a lot of rotating and so forth.

LeMar will be fine, Rocky will be fine. Skins will be fine.

[CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR]

rock has alot of upside but if the dline still stinks it doesnt matter how good rock or the other LB's are.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

What I read is that the team set the depth chart so that Rocky, Fletcher, and Washington are the number one guys. Lemar doesn't just have the chance to beat out Rocky for the starting job, he can beat out any of the three. He was told specifically that he would be able to compete for a starting job, not just Rocky's starting job. I'm sure Lemar is going to be used to push Rocky and Fletcher.

it should have been been set as fletcher, washington and marshall as the starters with rocky having the chance to battle with lemar. marshall is a proven starting caliber lb in the nfl, rocky has yet to prove anything as far as i know.