Theory: Putting together a staff for the future

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Do you think Jeff Fisher will just let him go? Especially if the Redskins did screw over his best friend? The only way is if Williams goes back to the Titans with Schwartz becoming free to come here.

And as a lateral move for Schawartz, the Titans could demand compensation. Schwartz as our DC is not going to happen - he interviewed for the head coaching position.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dblanch66

Given that Snyder's ego isn't going anywhere, I agree with the staffing choices being made. But man, where's the outrage at the ego?
He owns the team. He can do what he wants.

Of course he can do what he wants. That's an obvious statement (and an asinine one at that). But that's not the question. The question is SHOULD he do what he wants?

I say no, because Snyder doesn't understand what it takes to put together a football team.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by dblanch66

Given that Snyder's ego isn't going anywhere, I agree with the staffing choices being made. But man, where's the outrage at the ego?
He owns the team. He can do what he wants.

Maybe Dan Snyder is Al Davis's son? Dan (Al Davis Jr.) Snyder.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Of course he can do what he wants. That's an obvious statement (and an asinine one at that). But that's not the question. The question is SHOULD he do what he wants?

I say no, because Snyder doesn't understand what it takes to put together a football team.

Then the bigger question is, should he even own a sports franchise? I personally feel even the owner should be some sort of a football person in order to understand how the franchise works. Dan knows how to make money off of the Redskins through merchandise and ticket sales, but those things will eventually fall by the way side unless the franchise itself can make the money "on the field" by winning football games.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Then the bigger question is, should he even own a sports franchise? I personally feel even the owner should be some sort of a football person in order to understand how the franchise works. Dan knows how to make money off of the Redskins through merchandise and ticket sales, but those things will eventually fall by the way side unless the franchise itself can make the money "on the field" by winning football games.

I disagree that you need to be a football person to be an effective owner. Some of the best owners know little about football, but also know that the most effective leaders hire the best available talent to help the enterprise succeed. Bob Kraft and Jeffrey Lurie are two examples of that. I agree with the poster (Schneed?) who says that The Danny's ego limits the pool of candidates that will work for the Skins. If the ego of the owner is a factor in who is willing to come here, then we have serious issues at the top.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

I thought that I read that Blache wasn't interested in moving up to defensive coordinator, even had Williams been promoted to head coach.

As for Matty's premise on the long term viability of the staff (or lack thereof), I agree with that on the offensive side of the ball, but not on Defense. Williams is 49 or 50. He has some excellent young guys on his staff, particularly Jerry Gray and Kirk Olivadotti. Even with the loss of Sean Taylor, Laron Landry looked perfectly suited to step into Williams's deep FS role as exhibited by his two 4th quarter picks in the playoff game. If Fassel or someone else from the outside is hired as HC, I would feel a lot better if Jerry Gray was promoted to defensive coordinator. Gray also coached with Williams in Buffalo, and could bring some level of continuity to what Williams built on the Redskins D.

Thats awseome. So we have three (two) viable candiates to run the same defense that has been the cornerstone of this franchise over the past few years. I guess D-Coordinators really are a dime a dozen. However in light of this information I would like to see Gray take the Coordinator job. The guy already served as a coordinator once and did a pretty good job.

Personally I don't disagree with Snyders reservations of having Grilliams be HC, given that in Buffalo he was so conservative that the announcer dubbed the opponents side of the field the "Maroon Zone." However Snyders people skills have a lot of work to do. If he hadn't led Gregg Williams on for so long then this wouldn't nearly be as big an issue, but then again thats been said about a millon times already.

[Mc2guy]

I agree with MattyK's original post, that Synder is probably doing the smart thing for the franchise in the long term given the known structure of this team's FO. That said, I can also understand the frustration with an owner who seems oblivious to the people side of organizational management. Synder is like many other successful businessmen. They have had tremendous success in areas of their life and have a very difficult time giving away operational control of their business holdings. Particularly self-made men like Synder, have gotten to where they are in life trusting their instincts, so it is natural that they want to continue to trust their own judgement, and frankly I don't know if I could blame him.

I think his biggest failure is not recognizing that in football, unlike corporate mergers and acquisitions, interpersonal leadership matter MUCH more. Leveraging capital to buy-out a struggling company requires zero interpersonal skills, whereas football relies much more on trust. Trust from the coaching staff, trust from the players, trust from the fans that the owner cares. Synder doesn't have this skill, and it is unlikely that he ever will, it is not really a learned skill.

We the fans must come to terms with the frank reality of the situation. We have an owner who honestly wants to succeed; he wants to trust people; and he wants to be liked by people and fans by succeeding on the field. He's going to run this franchise his way, that's it, end of story. We could all do ourselves a favor to start thinking in these terms and hope that he and vin have enough sense now to at least find talented coaches. If you are that up in arms about DS you're only course of action is to stop giving him your money...for all the good that will do.

Sorry for the saltiness, I'm just tired of the outrage...it is what it is, best we learn to patiently deal and hope for the best.

[SKINSnCANES]

I agree with part of what Matty said, and agree with some of the responces. We had an ancient coaching staff that tried to relive the 80's, and even though some clothing styles show up time and time again, it didnt work for football. No matter what you think about what Joe Gibbs did, I think it was a short term marketing and quick fix plan.

Hiring Joe Gibbs is really no different than hiring Deion Sanders. He was old, not a long term solution, and really no different than any other Dan Snyder flashy hiring.

Im not saying Joe Gibbs did bad, im not startign any koolaid talk. He brought the moral up and gave credit back to the redskins. I think Gibbs did an amazing job with hiring Greg Williams, and more importantly you can raelly see that Gibbs and Williams spent time getting us young talent on D, all of our first round picks went to defense. I hope we keep williams because everything on defense is in place.

But on offense we have guys that have family probably begging them to retire...I mean all of Gibbs guys from the first run. Id like to keep Saunders but Zorn is a great hire to take over.

Our offense has been less than special since Gibbs got here, so hopefully Zorn can right that. I just hope we can keep what we have going on defense. If Williams at least we have a lot of pieces in place there. Zorn will have pieces in place on offense too, personal wise, hopefully hes schemes will perform most consistently.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Good post Matty and that may very well be Danny's thinking. However, I could see turning things over in the long term best interests of our team if we had a bad season. We won 4 of our last games and made the playoffs. What happened to the continuity? Or was the continuity Snyder and Cerrato?

I agree, I don't trust Danny here at all. Mix messages for sure. Continuity is important only when it's convenient to say so apparently.

That said, I agree about the possible conflicts between Williams and Danny (and Vinny for that matter). This very well may have been a proactive rather than reactive move by Snyder in anticipation of future problems.

And I also love the Zorn hire, especially as far as Campbell is concerned.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I think these are all fair points, and for the record, I do think a staff of Fassel, Zorn, and some defensive coordinator to be named can be a good staff for the long haul.

But Matty, I really have a bone to pick with your argument, and it seems like a point made consistently by those supporting a decision passing over GW:

Dan Snyder's ego. The point basically says Snyder has an ego, and plans on being heavily involved, so we need a coach who will fit in with that. And given that Snyder isn't going to back off, you're right. But why exactly are you comfortable with Snyder being involved? Why is Snyder given a free pass? Why does his ego HAVE to get in the way?

Why can't Snyder be like Bob Kraft, or Jim Irsay, or the late Art Rooney, or the late Jack Kent Cooke? These men didn't/don't get involved in the football operations of the team. They scrutinize their coaches and GMs, but by no means are they involved in player-personnel decisions. But because Dan Snyder is involved, he needs someone he can work with. So we fire Marty after one season. He can't work with Gregg Williams. With Snyder's attitude, we significantly narrow the pool of coaching candidates he'll accept.

A good owner will hire the best people and leave it up to them. He won't micromanage and try to do the GM's work for him.

So the problem I have ultimately isn't with the coaching choice. The problem I have is Snyder can't put his big fat ego in check. He insists on getting in the way. And in my opinion, your points are even giving way to his ego.

Given that Snyder's ego isn't going anywhere, I agree with the staffing choices being made. But man, where's the outrage at the ego? Maybe we need to parse the argument a little bit - do you feel Snyder should be involved in coaching and player personnel decisions? If so, why?

Yep. And as I stated before, it is not so much an issue of hiring Williams or not hiring Williams, it is an issue about the process, the secrecy, the not keeping in contact with people on the staff, with letting them hear about hirings on the radio. I know it's just business for Danny, but it also effects peoples lives and they deserve some information. I also think he should have just hired Fassel rather than doing all this coy, cloak and dagger stuff, and now wanting to wait and interview Spagnolo.

I don't like the argument that this is all the "media's" doing either. The Washington Post is a serious newspaper and JLC is the beat writer for the team, he is going to report this thing out. We've seen how coaches have been left in the dark, not just the assistants but also Williams and now Fassel too. I also don't like the argument that no word has come out of Redskins Park so this is just a bunch of smoke. Silence is not always a blessing and some level of transparency isn't a bad thing. At least let the people effected know what the hell is happening. Plus, as Schneed rightly points out, the process itself and what it says about the way Snyder operates this organization. As Schneed also said, please don't say "it's his organization he can do what he wants". Of course he can, but we can't criticize? Give me a break.

I don't have a problem with hiring Zorn, or Fassel for that matter, but my problem is with the process. And don't say we don't know anything. We know enough to know that a lot of people were kept in the dark and a lot of people were not told were they stood. It might be "good business" but it's no way to treat people, it's no way to build trust, and it's no way I'd want my employer to act.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Alright I'm going to toss my hat in the ring and toss out this theory as to what the plan is.

With Gibbs out of the picture, the nice and easy solution would have been to retain Williams as HC and leave the rest of the staff relatively intact.

Here's the hitch though, this staff was Joe Gibbs' staff. He put it together and let's face it, it wasn't exactly a staff built for the long term. I'm not sure of the average age of the staff, but it's got to be right at the top for one of the oldest, errr, I mean experienced staffs in the league. Again, not a staff built for the long term and not one that was picked by Williams.

So what I'm saying is, even if Williams took over, there was going to be some pretty significant changes. Saunders was probably outta here no matter what, and guys like Breaux and Burns weren't going to stick around with Gibbs out of the picture. You promote GW, you need a new DC, so that's another open spot on the staff. A few other coach's have contracts that are up, so who knows if they would have been retained as well.

There have always been rumblings that Williams and Snyder weren't exactly best buddies the past few years, and Gibbs was the buffer between the two. Just look at Williams' style. Tough guy, disciplinarian, on the arrogant side, sound familiar? Sounds a little like another coach that Snyder didn't play nice with... Marty Schottenheimer. In summary, Williams and Snyder probably weren't going to last in the long run. Eventually their egos would have clashed (probably sooner rather than later), and then where would that have left things? In search of another new HC and more turmoil? If you ask me, if Snyder has any doubt about working with Williams for the long run, the right move is to not even try to go there. Cut the head off this thing now and move on rather than trying to avoid the inevitable. He tried this once with Marty and we all know how that worked out. He doesn't want to go down that road again.

So ultimately I think the plan is to put together a staff for the long run. If that means taking a step backwards now in order to take steps ahead in the future, this is what has to be done. It certainly isn't pretty, but it seems like this is what needs to happen in order for Snyder to have a staff in place that he is comfortable with going forward with.

I have to say that I already like the Zorn hiring, and before you jump all over this notion that why did they hire an OC without having a HC first, let's just point out that Dallas did the same exact thing last year when they hired Garrett before Phillips. Zorn was reportedly high on the lists of all the potential HC's, so it was a no-brainer. I think we're going to see some more quality hirings too and in the end once the dust settles we just might like the looks of the new staff. Give it some more time, stay patient, and let's judge the entire package once everything is in place. Did anyone see the Zorn hiring coming a few weeks ago? I sure didn't. That tells me that someone is doing their homework in this search to turn up quality assistants and they're not just shooting for the big names. Look at some of the other names that have been floated out there. Schwartz, Meeks, Spagnola... not exactly the sexy big names that we always blame Snyder for going after.

Feel free to agree or disagree, but let's just keep things civil. There seems to be this notion that the moderators here don't want to hear any dissenting opinions. That's simply not true, what we're looking for is less emotional over the top stuff and more civil rational discussion.

Fire away.

Glad you took the time to put all that down. Those have pretty much been my sentiments since this thing started. I haven't quite understood all the panicking going on around here. When a team loses a head coach, inevitabely there are going to be some significant changes. That's just the nature of the beast. Let's see how this whole process unfolds. So far I like the Zorn/Blache combo...we'll have a head coach shortly after the superbowl and then it's on to thinking about next year.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Good post Matty and that may very well be Danny's thinking. However, I could see turning things over in the long term best interests of our team if we had a bad season. We won 4 of our last games and made the playoffs. What happened to the continuity? Or was the continuity Snyder and Cerrato?

I think there is a notion that continuity meant Saunders and Williams. It really shouldn't be viewed in such narrow terms, in my opinion. While certainly it'd have been beneficial to keep them, continuity isn't just about the two of them.

It's about the scouts and the front office (like it or not); it's about having built a base of young players (Doughty, Campbell, Rogers, Rocky, Montgomery, Landry, and so on) to build something with for several years, as opposed to the aging veterans we seemed to have focused in the past; and it's about several key coaches on the staff that tend to fly under the radar.

And I think the last part is the most important, the one that bears the most watching over the next several weeks. Losing Williams and Saunders alone isn't the big story, it's about the domino effect it may create (or not create.) Never mind guys like Breaux and Burns. Really, are we going to miss them? Thanks for everything, but let's not kid ourselves they were basically just like members of Gibbs' posse. The key, for me, will be what about the guys who really do the down and dirty work with the position players-Byner, Hixon, Lazor, Olivadotti, Jackson-what of them? I'm really curious to see what happens with them. None of the offensive guys really have a connection to Saunders so I don't know that they would necessarily try to follow him wherever he goes.

[TheSmurfs22]

Good theory and good points. I too am excited about Zorn. Obviously we do not know what happens on a daily basis at Redskins Park but from the outside looking in I wish that Gregg Williams situation was handled better.

I really fear that if Snyder keeps micro-managing we are going to become an organization of instability year after year.

[goingdeep]

they are coach for bcowher so he will have more time with his family and have more free time

[The Gremlin]

um if he kept Gregg the defensive staff is intact and if he kept Saunders so was most of the offensive staff. Too bad the Skins will be rebuilding now but I like the Blache move. At least someone deserving for once gets a promotion.