Understanding the Issues 2008: Energy

[70Chip]

Hillary's energy seems to be very negative. I can't get a good read on BHO's energy because the dark side of the force is casting a shroud over everything.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Hillary's energy seems to be very negative. I can't get a good read on BHO's energy because the dark side of the force is casting a shroud over everything.

I noticed you had posted something and thought, okay, here come's a deep one. Nice job

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I noticed you had posted something and thought, okay, here come's a deep one. Nice job

Deep like Thomas Carlyle deep? Or deep as in "Watch your step!"?

[jsarno]

There is something to like about all 3, however, the candidate that I would most like to see is the one that says NO MORE OIL. (yes, we all know I am a Bush advocate, but I don't have to like EVERYTHING about his tenure do I?)
It's time to stop using oil 100%, and we need to make a plan to stop it NOW. Corn is my alternative, and no one seems to be making that a priority.
I love the wind and solar energy idea for homes etc...if we put more money towards research in those departments, we could maximize the energy they give us.
All this kind of reminds me of Monsters Inc. They needed screams and they were barely making the energy needs, then they found out that laughter was the better solution. Right now, oil is screams, and corn / solar / wind is laughter. We just have to learn to harness it.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by jsarno

It's time to stop using oil 100%, and we need to make a plan to stop it NOW. Corn is my alternative, and no one seems to be making that a priority.

There are valid reasons why.

Aside from driving food costs through the roof (not only the corn, but a lower supply of feed for animals being raised for beef, chicken, etc will cause all meat prices to skyrocket), read this:

The Oil Drum | Ethanol Fuel is not so Green


If you like the idea of breathing in poisonous, flammable cyanide gas, support ethanol.

[The role of ethanol in complex poisonings with ca...[Arch Med Sadowej Kryminol. 2006 Jan-Mar] - PubMed Result

Also, ethanol can't be transported by pipeline like gasoline. Water contamination is a big risk. It will all need to be transported by trucks. There's a huge increase in transportation costs and pollution. This is also crushing ethanol producers' profits because of the high transportation costs. If they're not profiting, they won't make it just to feel better inside.

Ethanol is less efficient than our current fuel. It's not a viable solution.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Buster

There are valid reasons why.

Aside from driving food costs through the roof (not only the corn, but a lower supply of feed for animals being raised for beef, chicken, etc will cause all meat prices to skyrocket), read this:

The Oil Drum | Ethanol Fuel is not so Green


If you like the idea of breathing in poisonous, flammable cyanide gas, support ethanol.

[The role of ethanol in complex poisonings with ca...[Arch Med Sadowej Kryminol. 2006 Jan-Mar] - PubMed Result

Also, ethanol can't be transported by pipeline like gasoline. Water contamination is a big risk. It will all need to be transported by trucks. There's a huge increase in transportation costs and pollution. This is also crushing ethanol producers' profits because of the high transportation costs. If they're not profiting, they won't make it just to feel better inside.

Ethanol is less efficient than our current fuel. It's not a viable solution.

That's the thing, people, not everyone, think that Ethanol will solve our energy woes, when in fact, as you've pointed out Buster, it's not as effiecient as our current fuel. From what I understand, which is from a pretty reliable source, it costs a helluva lot of money to convert corn to into actual fuel. So the ultimate tradeoff really isn't as feasible as it's being touted.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by jsarno

There is something to like about all 3, however, the candidate that I would most like to see is the one that says NO MORE OIL. (yes, we all know I am a Bush advocate, but I don't have to like EVERYTHING about his tenure do I?)
It's time to stop using oil 100%, and we need to make a plan to stop it NOW. Corn is my alternative, and no one seems to be making that a priority.
I love the wind and solar energy idea for homes etc...if we put more money towards research in those departments, we could maximize the energy they give us.
All this kind of reminds me of Monsters Inc. They needed screams and they were barely making the energy needs, then they found out that laughter was the better solution. Right now, oil is screams, and corn / solar / wind is laughter. We just have to learn to harness it.

Well if you read what allot of experts say about corn is that we burn more energy producing a gallon of ethanol. Also with the fields needed to grow corn we will cause more green house gases by clearing land.

[BleedBurgundy]

Clearly you people have not seen the thread about using water as fuel... lol.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I like number one solely for the strict measures to increase fuel efficiency. While I love the idea of alternative fuel sources, we're stuck with oil for the foreseeable future. I'm pissed already that while we can "govern" a car at 130 miles per hour, we couldn't suddenly govern a car at 75 (within the speed limits of most or all states).

Why would that be such a problem? Instantly, less gas is used and miles per gallon goes up.

[MTK]

Corn is turning out to be a very poor fuel alternative.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Corn is turning out to be a very poor fuel alternative.

It is, however, great for cleaning the colon!

[FRPLG]

Corn has been become a political tool, a proverbial third rail and ultimately it is a joke. It is things like "corn as fuel" which make me want to fire every politician we have. The use of corn in the relatively small amounts that we utilize now is already seriously straining the food markets. It is supposed to be an answer? It's not even close and that argument doesn't even get into the points about it sucking as a fuel anyways.

[FRPLG]

On another note. I mentioned this in the "Water as fuel thread":

I don't understand why we have to legislate big oil companies into this. Why can't we simply make it very worth their while to develop other sources? I think it is slightly naive to think we can simply leave big oil in the lurch and expect a new solution any time soon. To do this quickly and as effectively as possible it seems to me the answers need to come from big oil themselves. Make it a good business decision for them and they'll lead the way. And if they are leading the way then we'll probably get better answers than some bureaucratic crap solution based on a fairly tale like corn.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

On another note. I mentioned this in the "Water as fuel thread":

I don't understand why we have to legislate big oil companies into this. Why can't we simply make it very worth their while to develop other sources? I think it is slightly naive to think we can simply leave big oil in the lurch and expect a new solution any time soon. To do this quickly and as effectively as possible it seems to me the answers need to come from big oil themselves. Make it a good business decision for them and they'll lead the way. And if they are leading the way then we'll probably get better answers than some bureaucratic crap solution based on a fairly tale like corn.

You've basically nailed this whole energy argument down in one post.

Who and how can we get big Oil to bring solutions to the table when their profits are just fine the way they are?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You've basically nailed this whole energy argument down in one post.

Who and how can we get big Oil to bring solutions to the table when their profits are just fine the way they are?

By incenting them to invest in other fuel sources, diversifying their product portfolio. As great as oil is doing for them right now, that may not always be the case, and they know this. If they've got another product that they can make money off of, the market risk that big oil's shareholders currently must assume will be partly assuaged by the presence of another basket to hold their financial eggs.