Ogunleye Officially on the Block

hurrykaine · 08-18-2004, 03:41 PM

thanks smootsmack

SmootSmack · 08-18-2004, 03:46 PM

I added a poll just to get a general feel for what everyone is thinking

MTK · 08-18-2004, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illdefined

so many more teams have so much more to trade. they're looking for a replacement for Ricky Williams or David Boston for chrissakes...

seriously.

Who is going to want Betts as a major part of a deal? He hasn't done jack in his career so far and surprise, surprise, he's been dinged up all of camp so far. Same for Jacobs.

MTK · 08-18-2004, 04:13 PM

I voted we're fine without him.

For the kind of $$ he's looking for and this late in camp, I say let him go elsewhere.

hurrykaine · 08-18-2004, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I voted we're fine without him.

For the kind of $$ he's looking for and this late in camp, I say let him go elsewhere.

Matty, correct me if I'm wrong, but this "Ogun on the block" story is a fake - there's no such story in the Washington times. Even the Miami herald has no such story - all the Herald says is that he remains unsigned.

Defensewins · 08-18-2004, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins_P

First of all.....Let's give Ramsey a shot. Just because he looked horrible the first two games doesn't mean that he's lost any value. He still has a canon and I think he's still considered a rookie. He's only played 16 games so far in his 2 year career, so let's give him a chance to prove himself. I bet you if Ramsey would've thrown that touchdown pass to McCants no one would be mentioning his name for trades.

I was just kidding about trading Ramsey. I was just trying to point out how quickly some folks want to trade away Mark Brunell or Rod Gardner, but are more than willing to give Ramsey all the time he needs to get better. Rod Gardner has proved (2002) that he is an NFL caliber receiver and will get back to great play now that we are playing a pro system again. Brunell's career speaks for itself.
Plus, the replacements for Brunell and Gardner are not ready for primetime.
I don't think either player has the trade value some here are trying imply. It will take at least a 1st round pick to get AO. Including a player would be pointless, because they add very little value to the deal.

Defensewins · 08-18-2004, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurrykaine

Matty, correct me if I'm wrong, but this "Ogun on the block" story is a fake - there's no such story in the Washington times. Even the Miami herald has no such story - all the Herald says is that he remains unsigned.

It is mentioned on the bottom of this article, in the extra points section:

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/2004...5806-7788r.htm

Redskins_P · 08-18-2004, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I was just kidding about trading Ramsey. I was just trying to point out how quickly some folks want to trade away Mark Brunell or Rod Gardner, but are more than willing to give Ramsey all the time he needs to get better. Rod Gardner has proved (2002) that he is an NFL caliber receiver and will get back to great play now that we are playing a pro system again. Brunell's career speaks for itself.
Plus, the replacements for Brunell and Gardner are not ready for primetime.
I don't think either player has the trade value some here are trying imply. It will take at least a 1st round pick to get AO. Including a player would be pointless, because they add very little value to the deal.

I agree. Didn't Gardner have his best year playing Marty-Ball? Maybe Gardner wasn't utilized correctly under the chuck-n-duck. I think this will be one of his best years though (it better be, because he's a starter on my fantasy team!). Like I said this is his contract year so it's obvious that he's going to step up.

Ogun's price is way too high, and for some reason I'm really excited about the defense we have already. Everyone is sleeping on them.

Big C · 08-18-2004, 04:40 PM

gardner had his best season when he was the number 1 option, now coles is and gardner's production will suffer, but he is still a good compliment to coles. if he was number one still, hed probably put up 1k yards again.

Defensewins · 08-18-2004, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big C

gardner had his best season when he was the number 1 option, now coles is and gardner's production will suffer, but he is still a good compliment to coles. if he was number one still, hed probably put up 1k yards again.

Another school of thought is Rod Gardner will have a better year than 2002, because Coles will draw the double team and will leave Gardner open. If you look at the other receivers in 2002 we had:
Derrius Thompson
Darnerien McCants
Kevin Lockett
Jacquez Green
None of those guys strike fear in a secondary and their stats in 2002 reflected it. Rod Gardner was basically a one man show that year. He did well despite defensive secondary's geared to stop him.
I am looking for Rod Gardner to have a good year this year in the Art Monk role of Joe Gibbs offense.

SmootSmack · 08-18-2004, 04:59 PM

as Big C points out, Gardner's numbers dropped when Coles became the number one option. With fewer passes thrown in his direction that's to be expected. I'm not looking for a monster season statistically from Gardner. What I'm looking for is a receiver who can command enough respect that opposing defenses aren't constantly double-temaing Coles or putting eight in the box. That make any sense?

JWsleep · 08-18-2004, 05:04 PM

Gardner will have a big year in the Monk-possession reciever role. I think Brunell hooks with him well. McCants will come in in the red zone and score TDs. Thrash will be the official #3, given his work ethic, veteran leadership, etc. But they'll rotate the others in as well, especially DMac. Jacobs will have to impress to get time, and he's got to get healthy!

As for Ogunleye, I'd instantly take him for a 1st round pick. What d-lineman in the draft this year (or next?) is up to that level? Miami will only take it to avoid a holdout, and they might want a receiver or an RB thrown in to cover the ricky/boston fiasco. Keep Coles, Gardner, and Portis. Everyone else is up for discussion. Why not?

As for the cash, just leave that to Danny boy and the accountants. When has the cap ever stopped us before? Canuck, are you out there? Can we find the cash money?

MTK · 08-18-2004, 05:08 PM

I don't think RG was used very well last year. It seemed like he was always catching screens and short dink and dunk stuff. Those are the kind of routes that are better for guys with good quickness and speed, not a physical possession guy. Let him work down the field and be physical with the DB's.

He's shown that he can be a 1000 yard guy in this league. It's a matter of the system he's in using him properly. Spurrier got too caught up in working the ball to Coles all the time.

I think Rod will rebound under Gibbs and put up some good numbers.

sportscurmudgeon · 08-18-2004, 05:08 PM

If the Dolphins take Gardner and a pick for AO, then they ought to administer drug tests to the Dolphins' Fo because someone is doing weed in there.

Let me play Doolphins GM for a minute and you offer me Gardner and a pick - even Gardner and a first round pick!

I tell you to pound sand up your fundamental orifice because I want to see how far you will go to get a player from me who can do something that none of your DL have shown any great ability to do - - rush the passer.

I'll counter with the name Clinton Portis - because I need a RB since Ricky went off to puff weed and eat Doritos.

I suspect you will tell me to go and pound sand up my fundamental orifice when I say that but now we have extablished that you can offer me something waay under value and I can ask for something waay over what you ought to be willing to pay.

Now we can get down to something interesting. And by interesting I do not mean Patrick Ramsey. I already have two relatively young QBs that need time and development and I do not need a third one thank you very much.

As the Dolphins GM, I KNOW the team is going to struggle this year and may stink like a skunk's butt. (I can't tell the fans this because Dolphins games don't always sell out and we don't need everyone dumping tix before the season starts.) So, I want your first round pick next year to go along with my own because mine will be an early pick and yours should be in the late-teens to mid-twenties.

But since AO will draw interest from other teams, I want a pot sweetener or I'm going to lose your phone # and be too busy to take any more calls from you. So, how about

a. one of your tight ends (you tell me which one) and your fourth round pick next year.

b. your third round pick next year.

c. Chad Morton and your fourth round pick next year.

celts32 · 08-18-2004, 05:25 PM

What scares me about Ogunleye is that he played opposite of Jason Taylor in Miami who received much of the attention. In DC he would be the main pass rush DL guy and likely be double teamed on every pass play. I have a friend who is a big Miami fan who does not think this guy is worth what they are asking for him.

Also trading away future 1st round picks is never a good idea.

View Poll Results: Ogunleye is worth...
Only a First Round Pick	13	25.49%
At Least a First Round Pick	8	15.69%
A Lower Draft Pick or Two	13	25.49%
A Veteran or Two	5	9.80%
Nothing. We're Fine Without Him	12	23.53%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

08-18-2004, 03:46 PM	#17
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	I added a poll just to get a general feel for what everyone is thinking __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

08-18-2004, 04:13 PM	#19
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	I voted we're fine without him. For the kind of $$ he's looking for and this late in camp, I say let him go elsewhere. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

08-18-2004, 04:59 PM	#26
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	as Big C points out, Gardner's numbers dropped when Coles became the number one option. With fewer passes thrown in his direction that's to be expected. I'm not looking for a monster season statistically from Gardner. What I'm looking for is a receiver who can command enough respect that opposing defenses aren't constantly double-temaing Coles or putting eight in the box. That make any sense? __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

08-18-2004, 05:04 PM	#27
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,717	Gardner will have a big year in the Monk-possession reciever role. I think Brunell hooks with him well. McCants will come in in the red zone and score TDs. Thrash will be the official #3, given his work ethic, veteran leadership, etc. But they'll rotate the others in as well, especially DMac. Jacobs will have to impress to get time, and he's got to get healthy! As for Ogunleye, I'd instantly take him for a 1st round pick. What d-lineman in the draft this year (or next?) is up to that level? Miami will only take it to avoid a holdout, and they might want a receiver or an RB thrown in to cover the ricky/boston fiasco. Keep Coles, Gardner, and Portis. Everyone else is up for discussion. Why not? As for the cash, just leave that to Danny boy and the accountants. When has the cap ever stopped us before? Canuck, are you out there? Can we find the cash money? __________________ Hail from Houston!

08-18-2004, 03:41 PM	#16
hurrykaine Impact Rookie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington, D.C. Age: 51 Posts: 762	thanks smootsmack

08-18-2004, 04:40 PM	#24
Big C Mr. Brightside Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Leesburg, VA Age: 38 Posts: 4,453	gardner had his best season when he was the number 1 option, now coles is and gardner's production will suffer, but he is still a good compliment to coles. if he was number one still, hed probably put up 1k yards again.

08-18-2004, 05:08 PM	#28
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	I don't think RG was used very well last year. It seemed like he was always catching screens and short dink and dunk stuff. Those are the kind of routes that are better for guys with good quickness and speed, not a physical possession guy. Let him work down the field and be physical with the DB's. He's shown that he can be a 1000 yard guy in this league. It's a matter of the system he's in using him properly. Spurrier got too caught up in working the ball to Coles all the time. I think Rod will rebound under Gibbs and put up some good numbers. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

08-18-2004, 05:08 PM	#29
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	If the Dolphins take Gardner and a pick for AO, then they ought to administer drug tests to the Dolphins' Fo because someone is doing weed in there. Let me play Doolphins GM for a minute and you offer me Gardner and a pick - even Gardner and a first round pick! I tell you to pound sand up your fundamental orifice because I want to see how far you will go to get a player from me who can do something that none of your DL have shown any great ability to do - - rush the passer. I'll counter with the name Clinton Portis - because I need a RB since Ricky went off to puff weed and eat Doritos. I suspect you will tell me to go and pound sand up my fundamental orifice when I say that but now we have extablished that you can offer me something waay under value and I can ask for something waay over what you ought to be willing to pay. Now we can get down to something interesting. And by interesting I do not mean Patrick Ramsey. I already have two relatively young QBs that need time and development and I do not need a third one thank you very much. As the Dolphins GM, I KNOW the team is going to struggle this year and may stink like a skunk's butt. (I can't tell the fans this because Dolphins games don't always sell out and we don't need everyone dumping tix before the season starts.) So, I want your first round pick next year to go along with my own because mine will be an early pick and yours should be in the late-teens to mid-twenties. But since AO will draw interest from other teams, I want a pot sweetener or I'm going to lose your phone # and be too busy to take any more calls from you. So, how about a. one of your tight ends (you tell me which one) and your fourth round pick next year. b. your third round pick next year. c. Chad Morton and your fourth round pick next year.

08-18-2004, 05:25 PM	#30
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 53 Posts: 2,665	What scares me about Ogunleye is that he played opposite of Jason Taylor in Miami who received much of the attention. In DC he would be the main pass rush DL guy and likely be double teamed on every pass play. I have a friend who is a big Miami fan who does not think this guy is worth what they are asking for him. Also trading away future 1st round picks is never a good idea.

Ogunleye Officially on the Block

Locker Room Main Forum