FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Basically, that is how it works. Basically. I fully expect this bill to come up again and be presented to Congress again if Obama get's in the White House. This isn't the last we've heard about this.

The point about the Telecom immunity probably won't be able to be re-visited though, correct?

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by Buster

Are you calling al Qaeda?

Why are you so worried?

slowly stripping Americans of their rights. and the closest i came to calling al qaeda was ordering a pizza last Friday. would gun owners give up their right to bear arms, in the name of national security? some how, i don't think so. these guys running this country have proved time and time again, that they think they don't have to play by the rules. so that's why im worried

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

slowly stripping Americans of their rights. and the closest i came to calling al qaeda was ordering a pizza last Friday. would gun owners give up their right to bear arms, in the name of national security? some how, i don't think so. these guys running this country have proved time and time again, that they think they don't have to play by the rules. so that's why im worried

So then what is your opinion on Obama voting for the bill and I'm still not sure what rights have been stripped from you. This is nothing new. If a cop is called to your home for some reason he can not enter without your permission or without a warrant. Now if he susspects illegal activity he can then enter your home. Whats the difference.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well Obama voted for the bill and if he thinks he is going to win the White House maybe he realized that he too will need this to fight terrorist.

It really was a no win situation for him as a candidate to be honest. On one hand, vote against it and you look weak on terrorism. Vote for it, you appear to slight the Constitution.

Also what isn't being reported is that earlier that same day Obama voted for a similiar bill, sponsored by Chris Dodd, that would have stripped out the immunity portion. It was defeated overwhelmingly. Later that day Obama voted for the other version of the bill that passed through the Senate.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

Oh and the really sad part of it all is that if you use Skype or any other VOIP technology that's encrypted they can't spy on you. Skype's communication channel is encrypted with a 256 bit key. What does that mean? It means you're pretty fucked unless the terrorist are absolute morons:

NSA has the capability to decipher a 256 bit key in minutes. Otherwise this encryption technology wouldn't be available to the public.

While many of our politicians are not the "sharpest tacks in the box", the folks doing the work at NSA are pretty smart and they have almost limitless funding.

marxbitware.com - Cipher Strengths - Are They To Weak?

Computerworld > Researcher finds RSA 1024-bit encryption not enough

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

It really was a no win situation for him as a candidate to be honest. On one hand, vote against it and you look weak on terrorism. Vote for it, you appear to slight the Constitution.

Also what isn't being reported is that earlier that same day Obama voted for a similiar bill, sponsored by Chris Dodd, that would have stripped out the immunity portion. It was defeated overwhelmingly. Later that day Obama voted for the other version of the bill that passed through the Senate.

So then what your saying is that Obama votes based on what he thinks will get him the most votes and does not vote on his belief.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So then what your saying is that Obama votes based on what he thinks will get him the most votes and does not vote on his belief.

Not saying that all. But it still remains a fact. He's damned if doesn't and damned if he doesn't. Is he a politician? Absoulutely.

Votes? I'm not sure how this get's him more votes though.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Also what isn't being reported is that earlier that same day Obama voted for a similiar bill, sponsored by Chris Dodd, that would have stripped out the immunity portion. It was defeated overwhelmingly. Later that day Obama voted for the other version of the bill that passed through the Senate.

I don't understand why some folks wanted the telecoms liable for cooperating with a Federal investigation. If they could've been held liable the result would've been a group of lawyers representing terrorist/anti-American interests and suing the telecoms for damages. This would then force the telecoms to not allow the government to access their information for investigations involving national security. The cost of the judgements if the telecoms lost would've been passed to the American people in the form of higher rates. It's a lose/lose for the American people we've hampered the government's ability to track and disrupt terrorist activity and we've raised our costs for phone/E-mail/internet.

I personally don't have a problem with the government(led by Rep or Dem) being able to access my phone/E-mail/Internet records if it has reasonable suspicion that I am involved in supporting terrorist activity. For the government to actually prosecute me or negatively affect me in any way they've got to jump through numerous legal hoops to make it happen. They can't break through my front door and cart me away to prison because I looked at a terrorist web-site one time.

I'll go down with a fight anyway, thanks to the recent 2nd Ammendment ruling (sarcasm)

[Miller101]

Originally Posted by firstdown

First off the President was using a law which gives him power to do things in a time of war. They used that as their way to tap people and some say he over reached and some said he was within his his powers. This judge said it was not illegal.

FISA Judge: Bush Wiretapping Broke No Law

WHAT!?!??! You actually believe that crap? The "Bush wiretapping broke no law" one.

If Bush's wiretapping broke no law then why is immunity included in this law THAT WAS JUST PASSED? It makes no sense dude! No offense, but this bill SUCKS!

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Miller101

WHAT!?!??! You actually believe that crap? The "Bush wiretapping broke no law" one.

If Bush's wiretapping broke no law then why is immunity included in this law THAT WAS JUST PASSED? It makes no sense dude! No offense, but this bill SUCKS!

I haven't read the bill, but the immunity was for the telecom companies that cooperated with the governments requests/demands for information. I don't see how any rational person would think they should be liable.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I haven't read the bill, but the immunity was for the telecom companies that cooperated with the governments requests/demands for information. I don't see how any rational person would think they should be liable.

I too find it hard to prosecute a company when the White House were the ones requesting the information. I understand that they were complicit, but if the POTUS is asking for information to make our country 'safer', how could they deny such a request.

[firstdown]

One thing I have noticed is that the people who had a problem with the gun rulling last week and supported gun bands now oppose this citing their constitutional right. The ones who liked the ruling about guns which they stated the 2nd now support this. So I guess we prove that people use the constitution as it fits their believes.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

One thing I have noticed is that the people who had a problem with the gun rulling last week and supported gun bands now oppose this citing their constitutional right. The ones who liked the ruling about guns which they stated the 2nd now support this. So I guess we prove that people use the constitution as it fits their believes.

Basically. We bend the Constitution to suit our needs. We're no better than the politians at the end of the day.

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

NSA has the capability to decipher a 256 bit key in minutes. Otherwise this encryption technology wouldn't be available to the public.

While many of our politicians are not the "sharpest tacks in the box", the folks doing the work at NSA are pretty smart and they have almost limitless funding.

marxbitware.com - Cipher Strengths - Are They To Weak?

Computerworld > Researcher finds RSA 1024-bit encryption not enough

I do not believe that the NSA can break RSA reliably. They may get lucky here and there, but I would have a hard time believing that they can crack a totally random key in a matter of minutes.

Even if they could crack RSA, they would have to catch the key negotiation when the AES keys are passed, in order to listen in on the good stuff. No way do I believe they can crack an AES stream on its own, though.

The openness of the these cryptographic standards is what makes them safe. The world is filled with brilliant mathematicians; they don't all work at the NSA. If there was a flaw besides brute force, I'm confident that the world would know about it.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

NSA has the capability to decipher a 256 bit key in minutes. Otherwise this encryption technology wouldn't be available to the public.

While many of our politicians are not the "sharpest tacks in the box", the folks doing the work at NSA are pretty smart and they have almost limitless funding.

marxbitware.com - Cipher Strengths - Are They To Weak?

Computerworld > Researcher finds RSA 1024-bit encryption not enough

It's about the algorithm used and the key size. Even at 1024-bit key size RSA encryption is trash when it comes to encrypting data. No one in their right mind would use it nowadays because it's susceptible to chosen-plaintext attacks and there are better encryption schemes out there. What you really want is AES (Rijndael) which the NSA approved for encrypting classified documents or Twofish which is even better.