ESPN: Is Campbell a break out player?

[hesscl34]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Very true!

Here are his games vs Dallas:
2007
8 / 115 / 1
9 / 121 / 1
2006
4 / 69 / 0
2005
2 / 73 / 0
5 / 159 / 2
2003 *-with jets
5 / 65 / 0

In 6 games, he has 33 catches, 602 yards, and 4 tds.

If all Moss did was play Dallas over a full 16 game season, he'd have 88 catches, 1607 yards, and 11 tds. Yeah, that's certainly a coyboy killer. Gotta love that.

All I have to say is after seeing Moss in training camp he is the fastest man in the East. If we (JC) gets the ball to him in this season and next, and the next, the man is a HOFer for sure. Go MOSS...

P.S. I'm a little biased because I have like 7 sigs of his on everything Skins stuff I own. ha ha..

[EternalEnigma21]

All I know is that I'm callin tristan h cockcroft for all my psychic needs from now on. Dude knew 4 months ago what we would do in our first 3 preseason games... F ms cleo!

[redskinjim]

moss had problems last year. but remember the dallas game when out of desperation brunell and moss shocked everyone.I look forward to some long bombs like that early in games this year.mark rypien had gary clark.ricky sanders and art monk.santana needs help and hopefully this is the year he will have some help with the new kids on the block.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Moss is a #1 wideout in the NFL, regardless of his stats. He's very fast, runs great routes, and has good hands. His stats are down, because of our QB situation the past few years. If Moss had Manning or Brady throwing to him, he'd set the world on fire.

Moss in fantasy football has hardly even been a good #3. That is because of his stats -- the only thing that matter in FF. However, I still blame that on our QB situation.

This year, Moss is poised to do much better in FF. We have more receiving threats, our passing attack looks like it will be more aggressive, and Campbell has one more year of experience. That said, I was targeting him in my draft, but he was taken too early. Go figure.

[4thGenRedskin21]

Moss has been a product of teams putting double coverage and rolling coverage on Moss because lack of other WR's on our team. This year, teams will have a harder time doing that because all of our WR's have GREAT speed and if they double Moss, they will get burned by someone else. Aso, I agree that Moss needs to do something else this year to make sure he stays healthy. a WR should not be having heel problems or anything that effects his running ability or catching ability, that hurts a wideout ALOT.

Moss is still young and still has plenty left in the tank, and if Moss doesnt return to form this year nad next, it's most likely he wont be. I have actually heard Moss has some of the best hands alot of people have ever seen, and that even though he's small, he will go across the middle and make a catch in traffic. You're crazy if you say Santana is not a true #1.. QB play effects the WR just as the OLine effects the Run game directly. If Santana makes a couple of those catches that he drops and if he doesnt get over thrown a few times from Jason then his stats would be VERY different. I'm willing to bet anyone that Santana will be a top 10 WR this year. We have Chris Cooley,Fred Davis,ARE,Kelly,Davis, and etc (all with breakway speed) what teams have a good enoug hsecondary to double team any player on our offense? Santana will have over 1,200+receiving yards and 9+ TD's

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by 4thGenRedskin21

Moss has been a product of teams putting double coverage and rolling coverage on Moss because lack of other WR's on our team. This year, teams will have a harder time doing that because all of our WR's have GREAT speed and if they double Moss, they will get burned by someone else. Aso, I agree that Moss needs to do something else this year to make sure he stays healthy. a WR should not be having heel problems or anything that effects his running ability or catching ability, that hurts a wideout ALOT.

Moss is still young and still has plenty left in the tank, and if Moss doesnt return to form this year nad next, it's most likely he wont be. I have actually heard Moss has some of the best hands alot of people have ever seen, and that even though he's small, he will go across the middle and make a catch in traffic.

I agreed with you up to this point for the most part.

You're crazy if you say Santana is not a true #1..

Hello world, I'm crazy!

ps- it's likely the other way around, but whatever.

QB play effects the WR just as the OLine effects the Run game directly. If Santana makes a couple of those catches that he drops

You are right in saying that a QB does matter...however, his drops were 100% HIS fault.

and if he doesnt get over thrown a few times from Jason then his stats would be VERY different.

Everyone gets overthrown. You could also say, if Moss didn't catch some of those difficult to slightly difficult balls things would look A LOT worse. It's funny how we skins fans always see the glass as overflowing instead of half full. If we like someone, we go to the extreme.

I'm willing to bet anyone that Santana will be a top 10 WR this year.

Holy crap...I need some money if you're giving it away.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Not sure how valid these stats are...

iWon - NFL League Stats

Moss had 10 drops last year.
Here's a sample of some other receivers and their drop numbers from last year (along with receiving yards):

Braylon Edwards - 12 (1,289)
Terrell Owens - 10 (1,355)
Randy Moss - 9 (1,493)

Just because a receiver drops passes, doesn't mean they aren't good. I think you are making too big a deal out of Moss' drops, Jsarno.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Not sure how valid these stats are...

iWon - NFL League Stats

Moss had 10 drops last year.
Here's a sample of some other receivers and their drop numbers from last year (along with receiving yards):

Braylon Edwards - 12 (1,289)
Terrell Owens - 10 (1,355)
Randy Moss - 9 (1,493)

Just because a receiver drops passes, doesn't mean they aren't good. I think you are making too big a deal out of Moss' drops, Jsarno.

You may be right, and certain games stick out in my mind with drops.

You are forgetting 2 things though, the amount of targets and the reception to drop ratio:
Randy Moss was targeted 159 times, 9 drops. (1 drop every 17.67 targets)
Edwards was targeted 153 times, 12 drops. (1 drop every 12.75 targets)
Owens was targeted 141 times, 10 drops. (1 drop every 14.1 targets)
Moss was targeted 115 times, 10 drops. (1 drop every 11.5 targets)

If we compare their respective receptions vs drops, Santana's is worse again:
Randy Moss drops a pass every 10.89 receptions.
Edwards drops a pass every 6.67 receptions.
Owens drops a pass every 8.1 receptions.
Moss drops a pass every 6.1 receptions.

So while Edwards dropped more than he should have, they all are significantly better than Santana. Also, we are pretty vocal about how crappy Owens hands are and he drops more passes than anyone, so to compare Santana to Owens isn't exactly proving anything, especially when Owens actually catches more.

I think we've all said what needed to be said. We are all hoping Moss returns to form. There is no doubt he has not been what we have needed him to be the past two years, and there seems to be no doubt that Santana has the talent. Like redskins247 says, if he doesn't return to form, the writing is on the wall. I love his hustle, and his intensity...he's fun to watch, and I'll root for him as loudly as ever this year, but I certainly avoided him in fantasy leagues. I am BEGGING him to show me that was a bad move on my part!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jsarno

You may be right, and certain games stick out in my mind with drops.

You are forgetting 2 things though, the amount of targets and the reception to drop ratio:
Randy Moss was targeted 159 times, 9 drops. (1 drop every 17.67 targets)
Edwards was targeted 153 times, 12 drops. (1 drop every 12.75 targets)
Owens was targeted 141 times, 10 drops. (1 drop every 14.1 targets)
Moss was targeted 115 times, 10 drops. (1 drop every 11.5 targets)

If we compare their respective receptions vs drops, Santana's is worse again:
Randy Moss drops a pass every 10.89 receptions.
Edwards drops a pass every 6.67 receptions.
Owens drops a pass every 8.1 receptions.
Moss drops a pass every 6.1 receptions.

So while Edwards dropped more than he should have, they all are significantly better than Santana. Also, we are pretty vocal about how crappy Owens hands are and he drops more passes than anyone, so to compare Santana to Owens isn't exactly proving anything, especially when Owens actually catches more.

I think we've all said what needed to be said. We are all hoping Moss returns to form. There is no doubt he has not been what we have needed him to be the past two years, and there seems to be no doubt that Santana has the talent. Like redskins247 says, if he doesn't return to form, the writing is on the wall. I love his hustle, and his intensity...he's fun to watch, and I'll root for him as loudly as ever this year, but I certainly avoided him in fantasy leagues. I am BEGGING him to show me that was a bad move on my part!

Good info. Moss definately did not help the team last year, especially while Campbell was the QB.

I don't think that means he CAN'T help the team this year. If he produces something like his 2006 season, which was in the middle of his 2007 and 2005 production, I think he can be a valuable contributor for us.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Good info. Moss definately did not help the team last year, especially while Campbell was the QB.

I don't think that means he CAN'T help the team this year. If he produces something like his 2006 season, which was in the middle of his 2007 and 2005 production, I think he can be a valuable contributor for us.

I agree.

I'll be ecstatic if he produces like he did the last 3 weeks of the season:
15 catches, 261 yards and 2 tds. That would translate to 80 catches 1392 yards and 11 tds over the course of a full season.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Not sure how valid these stats are...

iWon - NFL League Stats

Moss had 10 drops last year.
Here's a sample of some other receivers and their drop numbers from last year (along with receiving yards):

Braylon Edwards - 12 (1,289)
Terrell Owens - 10 (1,355)
Randy Moss - 9 (1,493)

Just because a receiver drops passes, doesn't mean they aren't good. I think you are making too big a deal out of Moss' drops, Jsarno.

Another thing to consider when looking at these 3 WR's is their QBs. Sure they may have dropped some balls, but Derek Anderson, Tom Brady, and Tony Romo were all pro-bowlers last year. And all three teams had very good offenses overall. So despite those drops, they were on offenses that consistently moved the chains, and saw tons of great throws come their way from those signal callers.

And 4thGenRedskin- I love JC too, but to say he's better than Roethlisberger or McNabb at this point is premature. That said, I do think he's better than Eli, who caught lightning in a bottle (sparked by their D) late last season. Eli was 25th in passer rating and let the league in INTs. He has yet to prove his worth as a consistent starter, despite the ring. And I personally think Philip Rivers is doo doo. And arrogant as hell too.

[GMScud]

I know this was supposed to be a Campbell thread, but on Redskins tailgate right now they're talking about how Moss has fallen off, and they're talking about the same numbers Jsarno has been quoting - hasn't been in the top 30, etc etc. But they're saying he's healthier now than he has been since '04. Hopefully he has a WCO season like Bobby Engram had last year....

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Another thing to consider when looking at these 3 WR's is their QBs. Sure they may have dropped some balls, but Derek Anderson, Tom Brady, and Tony Romo were all pro-bowlers last year. And all three teams had very good offenses overall. So despite those drops, they were on offenses that consistently moved the chains, and saw tons of great throws come their way from those signal callers.

Exactly my point.

[4thGenRedskin21]

It's just like when people were sleeping on Clinton after the 06 season.. They were like "Portis is too old, he's too injury prone, he'll never be the same, blah,blah,blah" all that is nonsense. Moss has been slowed by injuries and inconsistant QB play, also, a lack of other playmakers at the WR spot. But now, that' is all taken care of and anyone who knows anything about football knows that this year, Sanatana probably will be his most dangerous. The WCO will help Moss alot and you will see just how much the change in offense and the new additions will benefit Moss. I'm not a Moss lover, I think he played shotty the past 2 years, but there has been a lackluster offense period, and you can't blame him for that. in 05' teams didnt have film on Santana with us and look waht he did. in 06' teams knew how to defend us and made it VERY predictable.. we didnt have any other threats to compliment santana an ARE.. They could double team and roll coverage towards them and totally take them out the game. They wont be able to do that this year, not at all. Santana is not T.O, but he's not a punk either

[4thGenRedskin21]

back to the topic, Campbell is def going to be a breakout player.. I just dont see a player like Jason bombing like the 49ers qb, or shit like that. Jason shows promise and everything you want to see in a young QB, he just needs more gametime experience.

I'm sorry but I honestly think Jason is better than Rivers,Eli manning,Roethlisberger, and donovan mcnabb. Yes he makes mistakes, but you cant expect him to not make those because thats how you learn. They say the one thing about Jason is that he's eager to learn, and that says alot about him not only as QB, but as a person.