Post Rams Debacle Thoughts

redwagonskins · 08-28-2004, 12:18 PM

Anyone else kind of reminded of the Spurrier Skins by the Rams last night? I'm just saying, a couple of years ago in pre-season we put up big numbers too and that didn't translate in the regular season. Last night there were two teams with different objectives out there. The Rams needed to feel good about themselves and game planned to win. By the way, Bulger wasn't all that solid and Chandler, who was, ain't gonna start. The Skins played a lot of guys who either will man the bench or won't be here. SUre we took a shellacking but these weren't the "A" team guys. It was an opportunity to test a lot of people. Sometimes it's good to get your ass kicked, especially when it doesn't count. It fires you up.

saden1 · 08-28-2004, 12:21 PM

-Spring is no Champ. Smoot is no Champ. These guys got abused. Bowen had is head up his ass. Tylor was decent although he got abused quite a bit too. All in all our secondary is screwed if they don't improve their play.

-Ramsey is still hesitant and flat footed. He pretty much lost the job.

-Jacobs was running well. That fumble was sure an eyesore though.

-Hope Samuels is ok.

-This game doesn't tell us much in terms of what is going to happen during the season. I mean, who the hell was that Number 22 who got abused on the TD?

SmootSmack · 08-28-2004, 12:23 PM

-Really disappointed in Ramsey so far this preseason. Wouldn't be so disappointed if I didn't think he had the potential to be great though

-Can notice a big difference when Brunell is in there. It's the experience most of all. I don't expect a big play necessarily but more imporantly I don't fear a dumb mistake

-Ralph Brown looked really bad, when is Walt Harris coming back?

-It wasn't just Brown, my man Smoot got abused by Holt.

-We gave up no sacks again, that was a nice sign

-I really liked seeing James Thrash in motion out of the backfield, not so much that but the fact there was motion in Gibbs' offense. Little by little I think we're going to start little wrinkles like that

-I guess the Rams getting whupped on Monday was the worst that could have happened to us. They really played with a huge chip on their shoulder

"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!"-Joe Gibbs

"Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try."-Joe Gibbs

MTK · 08-28-2004, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwagonskins

Anyone else kind of reminded of the Spurrier Skins by the Rams last night? I'm just saying, a couple of years ago in pre-season we put up big numbers too and that didn't translate in the regular season. Last night there were two teams with different objectives out there. The Rams needed to feel good about themselves and game planned to win. By the way, Bulger wasn't all that solid and Chandler, who was, ain't gonna start. The Skins played a lot of guys who either will man the bench or won't be here. SUre we took a shellacking but these weren't the "A" team guys. It was an opportunity to test a lot of people. Sometimes it's good to get your ass kicked, especially when it doesn't count. It fires you up.

great points, I totally agree

cpayne5 · 08-28-2004, 12:30 PM

I love it how all you 'fans' come on here the day after a PRESEASON loss and complain and call for heads to roll. Seems like the only time the rest of us ever hear from you guys is under these circumstances. Let the flaming begin ... lol

As for my thoughts about the game:

First off, I don't see much wrong with losing a game like this. The Rams had been embarrassed in their first 2 games. They had something to prove - we didn't. The Rams game planned against us to avenge those 2 losses. We actually held the Rams offense to no points when our first team defense was out there (minus 3 starters - Arrington, Daniels, & Barrow). The first Holt TD was against Ralph Brown, gimme a break. Torry Holt did have a big game, but when does he not? He's a special player (although I don't care too much for his taunting of Ralph Brown - there's just no place for that crap in the NFL). The point at which the broadcaster (mainly Collinsworth) started making statements about 'letting' Bailey get away, was when Holt and Co started torching our 2nd and 3rd team CBs. No, Fred and Springs didn't shut them down, but who really does? Our defensive scheme last night was pretty bland when it comes to blitzes as well. We really didn't run any stunts on the Dline or send the LBs that often, and when we did it was the backups. I think this was mainly for the coaching staff to see who could get to the QB in order to determine who makes it through first cuts.

I absolutely hate astro turf and, frankly, will take a loss like last night's over a win with a bunch of injuries any day.

Here's a quote that all the naysayers should take to heart:
"Any time you play a game like this, there is a lot to learn," Redskins cornerback Fred Smoot said. "It's the preseason. Let's go. Let's build on it. We're not going to go and panic. We're not going worry about going 0-16. We're going to learn from this.

"Point blank, we needed this."

I'll start to get worried when, after 6 games into the regular season, I don't see any improvement.

MTK · 08-28-2004, 12:34 PM

Does anyone doubt that Holt would have seen some doubles had this been a regular season game. Don't get me wrong the guy is a great WR, top 3 in the league, but he was running wide ass open in single coverage. That kinda stuff doesn't happen in the regular season.

SmootSmack · 08-28-2004, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpayne5

"Any time you play a game like this, there is a lot to learn," Redskins cornerback Fred Smoot said. "It's the preseason. Let's go. Let's build on it. We're not going to go and panic. We're not going worry about going 0-16. We're going to learn from this. "Point blank, we needed this."

His last name is Smoot and he always knows what he's talking about, right Payne!

We'll be fine

Defensewins · 08-28-2004, 12:37 PM

YES, the defense did not play well last night. But they were on the field way too long. It reminded me of last year. Our offense did not hold the ball at all.
Maybe cause Ramsey started last night. Ramsey's poor play led to many 3 and out drives. The opening drive was Ramsey's only one that moved down the field. However the ref's helped on two or three failed third down plays, which gave us automatic first downs. I am not worried about the defense as much as you guys. Yes they had a bad game, but compared to last year I can already see signs of much better play. They are a much better defense than last year. This defensive coaching staff has players already playing a much more sound and disciplined level of play. They have a great base to build on. When we get Lavar Arrington, Mike Barrow, Cornelius Griffen, Phillip Daniels and Walt Harris back, this defense will be back to playing well. Plus I hear Saalvea (who has looked good this preseason ) played limited snaps due to minor injury. When you have six guys from any defense missing, you are not going to have a good day.

jbcjr14 · 08-28-2004, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogskin

My thoughts...

- Yes, Ramsey has been consistently terrible. Has shown nothing at all. I STILL wish they had traded him while he had a lot of value.

- The D-line is still a big problem - can't blame it on the offense, the DL was weak throughout. We STILL have a burning need for a good pass rusher.

- Betts is the best backup to Portis that we have. I sure hope he can get/stay healthy and make the team.

- The DB's are fine. Don't forget, there is not another Holt in the NFL, and he was really "ON" last night.

- It would have been a much, MUCH different game with Brunell from the start AND with the full playbook in use. Again, they kept it extremely basic on offense.

I agree with Hogskin. Remember, no Arrington, no Barrow, no Daniels, no Griffin. That's 4 starters on the D. If I am not mistaken, the game was 14-3 or 17-3 at the half when the defensive "starters" were yanked. Not too mention that Ramsey missed a wide open Thrash for an easy six that would have made things closer.

Relax folks, next week will be even worse with almost zero starters playing for more than a series. 0-3 or 0-4 in the regular season to start (you heard it here first) then they will run the table!!!! LOL

Defensewins · 08-28-2004, 12:48 PM

I noticed they finally played Andre Lott at SS along side FS Taylor for the first time this preseason . I noticed on a couple plays where he really did a good job. However there were a few bad plays by Lott as well. But overall he plays better than Bowen.
Bowen on the other hand continues to look really bad. We may have cut the wrong guy (Iffy). Iffy should have been given a fair chance at SS before we gave up on him. I can not see how Bowen can be just given the SS position. He has yet to make a single good play. That pass interference play by Bowen was unforgivably bad. I am not sure Bowen was in a single good defensive play last noght or all preseason.

Gmanc711 · 08-28-2004, 12:52 PM

We played some cover 1 too, and expected Bowen to cover the entire side of the feild. In all seriousness, I mean we got burnt plenty of times, but I think that our blitzing had somthing to do with how many times we got beat. Man to man, you're gonna get beat every now and then. Man to man with Torry Holt, unless your Chris McCalister, Charels Woodson or (gulp) Champ Bailey, you're gonna get beat alot.

When breaking down the defense so far this preseason... I'm still impressed with how much better the dline is overall. They didnt show it at all last night, but we have had some nice suprises, and it wont be the killer it was last year, in my opinion. I wish Barrow would have gotten some pt, even with his injury. You gotta wonder if hes gonna be starting during hte season, cause Pierce has looked good.

SKINSnCANES · 08-28-2004, 01:02 PM

I think you guys are using Champ as an easy excuse. Its one thing to get beat on a couple plays because youre not a top corner, but to put up those kinda numbers in a half isnt one players fault. Id like to think, and im going to assume, that Williams wouldnt have had Holt in single coverage like he was. Im going to take this with a grain of salt and assume with our lbs and dine all healthy and playing the whole game that it would have been completly different.

This did show us though that if we dont get pressure with our linebackers early and often, then we are going to get picked apart. If our linebackers are blitzing, its takes them out of coverage. So when it doesnt work the middle of the field is always going to be open...

Hogskin · 08-28-2004, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKINSnCANES

I think you guys are using Champ as an easy excuse.

Yeah, I noticed that, too. I kind of figured it just came from listening to that clown Collinsworth harp on it all through the game. That guy develops a lot of biases, then uses every opportunity to push them. Even when they do not apply, as in several of his comments last night.

illdefined · 08-28-2004, 01:22 PM

i saw Griffin out there and Marcus Washington. no penetration against that weak Rams Oline. thats not about schemes, or Champ, its about beating the guy in front of you. the Dline was a concern before preseason, it will be one after.

apparently Gibbs thought so too cuz looks like we offered Gardner, Betts AND a fifth for Ogun...

Paintrain · 08-28-2004, 01:38 PM

I watched the game live last night.. My impressions are:

-Ramsey still looks uncomfortable.. I rewound my TIVO on the passes he overthrew to Thrash in the end zone and up the sideline and he's not throwing the ball with confidence, he's almost trying to be too perfect instead of just throwing it..

-OL looked ok but I am still concerned a little by the run blocking.. Just remember that they were missing Randy Thomas and Samuels got hurt.. Even the announcers said that after Samuels got hurt it seemed like the coaches got very conservative and generic as if to just make sure everyone got out healthy. No more pulling linemen, no more play action, just dives and drop back passes..

-I liked what I saw from Gardner (actually catching the ball), Thrash (getting open even though Ramsey kept missing him) and Taylor (aside from the fumble, he was open a few times and caught the ball well).. I'm not worried about this area..

-Defensively I think we were out game-planned.. It seemed like Martz coached almost like a regular season game and although Williams blitzed a lot I don't think he disguised them as he would in the regular season.. Ralph Brown in particular looked lost all night. I'm not worried about Smoot and Springs getting toasted, they weren't bumping the WR on the line so with a clean release in man coverage any NFL WR will be that open..

Bottom line, it's preseason, that's a team who was 12-4 last year, it's preseason, we're not going to go 16-0, it's preseason, it'll be a much stronger effort with everyone in the lineup and, um, oh yeah, it's preseason.

08-28-2004, 12:23 PM	#18
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	-Really disappointed in Ramsey so far this preseason. Wouldn't be so disappointed if I didn't think he had the potential to be great though -Can notice a big difference when Brunell is in there. It's the experience most of all. I don't expect a big play necessarily but more imporantly I don't fear a dumb mistake -Ralph Brown looked really bad, when is Walt Harris coming back? -It wasn't just Brown, my man Smoot got abused by Holt. -We gave up no sacks again, that was a nice sign -I really liked seeing James Thrash in motion out of the backfield, not so much that but the fact there was motion in Gibbs' offense. Little by little I think we're going to start little wrinkles like that -I guess the Rams getting whupped on Monday was the worst that could have happened to us. They really played with a huge chip on their shoulder "Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!"-Joe Gibbs "Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try."-Joe Gibbs __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

08-28-2004, 12:30 PM	#20
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	I love it how all you 'fans' come on here the day after a PRESEASON loss and complain and call for heads to roll. Seems like the only time the rest of us ever hear from you guys is under these circumstances. Let the flaming begin ... lol As for my thoughts about the game: First off, I don't see much wrong with losing a game like this. The Rams had been embarrassed in their first 2 games. They had something to prove - we didn't. The Rams game planned against us to avenge those 2 losses. We actually held the Rams offense to no points when our first team defense was out there (minus 3 starters - Arrington, Daniels, & Barrow). The first Holt TD was against Ralph Brown, gimme a break. Torry Holt did have a big game, but when does he not? He's a special player (although I don't care too much for his taunting of Ralph Brown - there's just no place for that crap in the NFL). The point at which the broadcaster (mainly Collinsworth) started making statements about 'letting' Bailey get away, was when Holt and Co started torching our 2nd and 3rd team CBs. No, Fred and Springs didn't shut them down, but who really does? Our defensive scheme last night was pretty bland when it comes to blitzes as well. We really didn't run any stunts on the Dline or send the LBs that often, and when we did it was the backups. I think this was mainly for the coaching staff to see who could get to the QB in order to determine who makes it through first cuts. I absolutely hate astro turf and, frankly, will take a loss like last night's over a win with a bunch of injuries any day. Here's a quote that all the naysayers should take to heart: "Any time you play a game like this, there is a lot to learn," Redskins cornerback Fred Smoot said. "It's the preseason. Let's go. Let's build on it. We're not going to go and panic. We're not going worry about going 0-16. We're going to learn from this. "Point blank, we needed this." I'll start to get worried when, after 6 games into the regular season, I don't see any improvement. __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

08-28-2004, 01:02 PM	#27
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 5,454	I think you guys are using Champ as an easy excuse. Its one thing to get beat on a couple plays because youre not a top corner, but to put up those kinda numbers in a half isnt one players fault. Id like to think, and im going to assume, that Williams wouldnt have had Holt in single coverage like he was. Im going to take this with a grain of salt and assume with our lbs and dine all healthy and playing the whole game that it would have been completly different. This did show us though that if we dont get pressure with our linebackers early and often, then we are going to get picked apart. If our linebackers are blitzing, its takes them out of coverage. So when it doesnt work the middle of the field is always going to be open... __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

08-28-2004, 12:18 PM	#16
redwagonskins Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 685	Anyone else kind of reminded of the Spurrier Skins by the Rams last night? I'm just saying, a couple of years ago in pre-season we put up big numbers too and that didn't translate in the regular season. Last night there were two teams with different objectives out there. The Rams needed to feel good about themselves and game planned to win. By the way, Bulger wasn't all that solid and Chandler, who was, ain't gonna start. The Skins played a lot of guys who either will man the bench or won't be here. SUre we took a shellacking but these weren't the "A" team guys. It was an opportunity to test a lot of people. Sometimes it's good to get your ass kicked, especially when it doesn't count. It fires you up.

08-28-2004, 12:21 PM	#17
saden1 MVP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Age: 45 Posts: 10,069	-Spring is no Champ. Smoot is no Champ. These guys got abused. Bowen had is head up his ass. Tylor was decent although he got abused quite a bit too. All in all our secondary is screwed if they don't improve their play. -Ramsey is still hesitant and flat footed. He pretty much lost the job. -Jacobs was running well. That fumble was sure an eyesore though. -Hope Samuels is ok. -This game doesn't tell us much in terms of what is going to happen during the season. I mean, who the hell was that Number 22 who got abused on the TD?

08-28-2004, 12:34 PM	#21
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	Does anyone doubt that Holt would have seen some doubles had this been a regular season game. Don't get me wrong the guy is a great WR, top 3 in the league, but he was running wide ass open in single coverage. That kinda stuff doesn't happen in the regular season.

08-28-2004, 12:37 PM	#23
Defensewins Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,749	YES, the defense did not play well last night. But they were on the field way too long. It reminded me of last year. Our offense did not hold the ball at all. Maybe cause Ramsey started last night. Ramsey's poor play led to many 3 and out drives. The opening drive was Ramsey's only one that moved down the field. However the ref's helped on two or three failed third down plays, which gave us automatic first downs. I am not worried about the defense as much as you guys. Yes they had a bad game, but compared to last year I can already see signs of much better play. They are a much better defense than last year. This defensive coaching staff has players already playing a much more sound and disciplined level of play. They have a great base to build on. When we get Lavar Arrington, Mike Barrow, Cornelius Griffen, Phillip Daniels and Walt Harris back, this defense will be back to playing well. Plus I hear Saalvea (who has looked good this preseason ) played limited snaps due to minor injury. When you have six guys from any defense missing, you are not going to have a good day.

08-28-2004, 12:48 PM	#25
Defensewins Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,749	I noticed they finally played Andre Lott at SS along side FS Taylor for the first time this preseason . I noticed on a couple plays where he really did a good job. However there were a few bad plays by Lott as well. But overall he plays better than Bowen. Bowen on the other hand continues to look really bad. We may have cut the wrong guy (Iffy). Iffy should have been given a fair chance at SS before we gave up on him. I can not see how Bowen can be just given the SS position. He has yet to make a single good play. That pass interference play by Bowen was unforgivably bad. I am not sure Bowen was in a single good defensive play last noght or all preseason.

08-28-2004, 12:52 PM	#26
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	We played some cover 1 too, and expected Bowen to cover the entire side of the feild. In all seriousness, I mean we got burnt plenty of times, but I think that our blitzing had somthing to do with how many times we got beat. Man to man, you're gonna get beat every now and then. Man to man with Torry Holt, unless your Chris McCalister, Charels Woodson or (gulp) Champ Bailey, you're gonna get beat alot. When breaking down the defense so far this preseason... I'm still impressed with how much better the dline is overall. They didnt show it at all last night, but we have had some nice suprises, and it wont be the killer it was last year, in my opinion. I wish Barrow would have gotten some pt, even with his injury. You gotta wonder if hes gonna be starting during hte season, cause Pierce has looked good.

08-28-2004, 01:22 PM	#29
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 48 Posts: 2,631	i saw Griffin out there and Marcus Washington. no penetration against that weak Rams Oline. thats not about schemes, or Champ, its about beating the guy in front of you. the Dline was a concern before preseason, it will be one after. apparently Gibbs thought so too cuz looks like we offered Gardner, Betts AND a fifth for Ogun...

08-28-2004, 01:38 PM	#30
Paintrain Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Age: 54 Posts: 5,006	I watched the game live last night.. My impressions are: -Ramsey still looks uncomfortable.. I rewound my TIVO on the passes he overthrew to Thrash in the end zone and up the sideline and he's not throwing the ball with confidence, he's almost trying to be too perfect instead of just throwing it.. -OL looked ok but I am still concerned a little by the run blocking.. Just remember that they were missing Randy Thomas and Samuels got hurt.. Even the announcers said that after Samuels got hurt it seemed like the coaches got very conservative and generic as if to just make sure everyone got out healthy. No more pulling linemen, no more play action, just dives and drop back passes.. -I liked what I saw from Gardner (actually catching the ball), Thrash (getting open even though Ramsey kept missing him) and Taylor (aside from the fumble, he was open a few times and caught the ball well).. I'm not worried about this area.. -Defensively I think we were out game-planned.. It seemed like Martz coached almost like a regular season game and although Williams blitzed a lot I don't think he disguised them as he would in the regular season.. Ralph Brown in particular looked lost all night. I'm not worried about Smoot and Springs getting toasted, they weren't bumping the WR on the line so with a clean release in man coverage any NFL WR will be that open.. Bottom line, it's preseason, that's a team who was 12-4 last year, it's preseason, we're not going to go 16-0, it's preseason, it'll be a much stronger effort with everyone in the lineup and, um, oh yeah, it's preseason.

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