Now that they're gone

offiss · 03-06-2004, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giacomo2

With all this talent and experience we have on the Dline, there's only one thing missing....Udeze!!! Just imagine him coming off the end with that raw speed and strength. Then imagine Lavar coming from the other side...this is what all redskin fans have been waiting/dreaming of for years. I say trade down and pick up a second round pick...then draft udeze, and with that second round pick...Im sure JoeG. will find a gem. HAIL REDSKINS!!!!!

Ah my friend you do err, If udeze is the good's I would pass up taylor to get him, but I would rush lavar from the same side as udeze now that would be very difficult to defend.

johnnyredskin63 · 03-07-2004, 09:45 AM

i really do'nt think it matters who we do or do not get in the draft.why?because gibbs and his coaching staff always get the best out of the players they have.if gibbs says he can win with vets as opposed to rookies,he can.

Daseal · 03-07-2004, 10:44 AM

I honestly think if Spurrier had the assistants Gibbs had our Defense would have been in the top 15 and we would have been in the hunt for the playoffs. I think our D Line did look pathetic, but the rest of our defense which had tons of talent didn't exactly look great. I think Daniels/Wynn/Noble/Griffin will give us a lot more push than last year. I still see us signing a few not-so-big named D line people.

RedskinPete · 03-07-2004, 11:25 AM

His leg was hurt bad last year and many I have read said it takes two years to really come back from something like this! So I really don't see him in the mix! That is why we will need someone else in the middle and the out side. With only one pick left trade down looks like it. To get more picks or wait and hope for more cuts in June! Still like Winslow!!!

silent1903 · 03-07-2004, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

I honestly think if Spurrier had the assistants Gibbs had our Defense would have been in the top 15 and we would have been in the hunt for the playoffs.

You could well be right....a few experienced NFL coaches telling SS to run a decent pro system instead of his Glum and Gun, or whatever it was called....

MTK · 03-07-2004, 01:34 PM

Well, Spurrier chose his own staff and quit rather than replace them, so I guess we could say if Spurrier was as smart as Gibbs...

Daseal · 03-07-2004, 01:53 PM

I'm not sure about Noble, but last I heard he was healing faster than expected. He might not be a 4 quarter guy, but I think we can get him in on certain situations.

Matty, Spurrier didn't have near the pull Gibbs has. Gibbs is a proven coach who is very good at convincing people. That's one of his strong points. Hypothetically speaking I think if Spurrier had the assistants Gibbs has the team would have been much improved. Spurriers offense didn't do THAT bad. When we actually had the ball, some games they had our number completely, but a lot of games we scored enough points to win but our defense just did nothing.

MTK · 03-07-2004, 02:53 PM

Daseal, I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend Spurrier all the time. The guy was a total flop at the NFL level. Once Lewis left he was completely lost. And the most telling thing was the offense regressed in his second year despite having more talent. Check out the numbers from 2002 compared to 2003, the offense was much worse across the board.

2002
2003

Some important stats to note:

Points per game:
2002: 19.2
2003: 17.9

Passing yards per game:
2002: 203.4
2003: 187.9

Rushing yards per game:
2002: 118.1
2003: 103.3

Third down %:
2002: 39.8
2003: 34

Penalties:
2002: 116-972
2003: 124-1038

First downs:
2002: 303
2003: 272

He couldn't protect the QB, he refused to committ to running the ball, he wavered back and forth between doing things his way one week, then the next week he would have another "gameplan", and the well documented discipline problems were just inexcusable.

He is a great college coach but at the NFL level he just couldn't cut it. His gimmicky offense was quickly diagnosed and eaten alive by NFL defenses. The only way he would have had success was if he scrapped his fun 'n' gun and went with a more traditional pro style of offense, and ultimately that's what led to him walking away, he realized he wasn't going to be successful doing it "his way", so why bother?

The arguement that Gibbs has more pull so that's why he's put together a better staff doesn't hold much water to me. If Spurrier did his homework on putting together a staff Snyder would have gotten him the guys he needed. Instead, Spurrier had no clue how important coaching was at this level and went about "promoting" his college staff to the NFL where they were equally unqualified and out of their element as he was.

Spurrier didn't even know how to run a training camp for gods' sake, Lewis was here in year 1 to basically be his mentor, (smart move by Snyder by the way). It's no surprise to me that the team fell apart after Lewis left, he was the glue that was holding things together.

The thing about Spurrier is he never really seemed dedicated to learning the ropes of the NFL and putting in the blood, sweat and tears to make it happen. He assumed he could bring his high flying offense to the NFL and that would overcome everything else like coaching and leadership. He was in way over his head in the NFL and he all but admitted that by quitting after 2 seasons and leaving $15M on the table.

And there's no comparison to him and guys like Jimmy Johnson who also struggled initially. The huge difference lies in their work ethics, or in Spurrier's case his lack thereof.

The one thing I can respect about Spurrier is he realized this "experiment" wasn't working and he handed the keys back to Snyder and said go find someone who can make this work.

Gmanc711 · 03-07-2004, 03:01 PM

The NFL Just wasent for Spurrier. I thought he was a stand up guy, and I legitmetley felt bad that his experiment didnt work. Him leaving, however, was best for him , and the Redskins.

Daseal · 03-07-2004, 06:03 PM

I've always been a Spurrier fan and I always will be. Did he make mistakes, sure. I also said hypothetically if he had the staff we have now, he would have done fine in the NFL, a point you don't seem to be contending.

If Gibbs goes and asks a great defensive coordinator to come to Washington he'll be much more likely to get him than Spurrier. I don't know how you can contest this. Coordinators want to go to teams with a shot just like players do. That's part of it.

As you said, Lewis was the glue. When we had a respectable defense of course our offense will perform better. Why don't you pull total possessions per game out of that stat sheet. You should see there were far less this year than last.

I think Spurrier can still be a head coach. He saw where his mistakes were and needs to fix him. I also think his work ethic is slightly under played. Yes, he'd leave early but I'm sure it wasn't all golf and sun for Spurrier. He has tons of room for improvement, but who doesnt.

Here's a question for you, what if Gibbs goes 7-9 two years in a row. Are you going to jump all over him and say he can't coach at the NFL level anymore? Doubt it, you'll blame it on tons of circumstances. Just how it is when it's 'your guy.' Spurrier needed a better staff to be successful, he should have had Snyder upgrade, but he didn't know it would be so dreadful till last year. It's not like he had a long run.

EEich · 03-07-2004, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

I think Spurrier can still be a head coach. He saw where his mistakes were and needs to fix him. I also think his work ethic is slightly under played. Yes, he'd leave early but I'm sure it wasn't all golf and sun for Spurrier. He has tons of room for improvement, but who doesnt.

Lets just hope he's the Cowboys' next head coach.

Jamaican'Skin · 03-07-2004, 08:34 PM

Wishful thinking.

MTK · 03-07-2004, 08:41 PM

Spurrier did have a quality defensive coordinator in Lewis. Are you saying he wouldn't have been able to land Williams as DC if he had stayed?? C'mon now, money talks just as much as "having a shot". Williams was the target for DC before Spurrier even left.

Gibbs is smart enough to surround himself with a quality staff, why? Because he knows the value of coaching and leadership. Spurrier clearly missed the boat on this concept. He thought his offense would overcome everything.

Spurrier is just another great college coach that couldn't hack it in the pros.

SittingBull · 03-07-2004, 08:59 PM

Spurrier is a great coach but one thing I despised about him was his lackadaisical attitude from the middle of the season on. In the beginning you could see he was determined with play calling and how the games were going but then he just looked like he gave up. Even when your initial plan is failing or failed I dont think a coach should just give up and hope for the best like he did. A good coach adapts and tries to focus on strengths and hide or make weaknesses negligble as much as possible. Spurrier didnt seem interested in doing that.

Ghost · 03-07-2004, 11:12 PM

Spurrier does not have what it takes to succeed on the pro level. Right now we're watching how a real coach assembles his team, how he prepares for a season. Gibbs ain't playing golf ... he's pulling all-nighters. If Spurrier put the time in and showed the level of dedication, discipline and commitment that is required, he would probably have been okay but he didn't and that's why he's unemployed today. Thank God Spurrier had the good sense to see that it wasn't working, because Snyder sure didn't ... if Steve hadn't walked away we would have had to endure another disappointing season.

03-07-2004, 09:45 AM	#17
johnnyredskin63 Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 203	i really do'nt think it matters who we do or do not get in the draft.why?because gibbs and his coaching staff always get the best out of the players they have.if gibbs says he can win with vets as opposed to rookies,he can. __________________ it's me,bigredskinfan63 bigledzepfan63 "the sea was red and the sky was grey,wondered how tommorow could ever follow today HAIL TO THE REDSKINS always remember ladies and germs-THE COWBOYS SUCK

03-07-2004, 11:25 AM	#19
RedskinPete The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Camino,Ca Posts: 1,174	Daseal are you sure about Noble???? His leg was hurt bad last year and many I have read said it takes two years to really come back from something like this! So I really don't see him in the mix! That is why we will need someone else in the middle and the out side. With only one pick left trade down looks like it. To get more picks or wait and hope for more cuts in June! Still like Winslow!!!

03-07-2004, 03:01 PM	#24
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	The NFL Just wasent for Spurrier. I thought he was a stand up guy, and I legitmetley felt bad that his experiment didnt work. Him leaving, however, was best for him , and the Redskins. __________________ #21

03-07-2004, 10:44 AM	#18
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I honestly think if Spurrier had the assistants Gibbs had our Defense would have been in the top 15 and we would have been in the hunt for the playoffs. I think our D Line did look pathetic, but the rest of our defense which had tons of talent didn't exactly look great. I think Daniels/Wynn/Noble/Griffin will give us a lot more push than last year. I still see us signing a few not-so-big named D line people.

03-07-2004, 01:34 PM	#21
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,563	Well, Spurrier chose his own staff and quit rather than replace them, so I guess we could say if Spurrier was as smart as Gibbs...

03-07-2004, 01:53 PM	#22
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I'm not sure about Noble, but last I heard he was healing faster than expected. He might not be a 4 quarter guy, but I think we can get him in on certain situations. Matty, Spurrier didn't have near the pull Gibbs has. Gibbs is a proven coach who is very good at convincing people. That's one of his strong points. Hypothetically speaking I think if Spurrier had the assistants Gibbs has the team would have been much improved. Spurriers offense didn't do THAT bad. When we actually had the ball, some games they had our number completely, but a lot of games we scored enough points to win but our defense just did nothing.

03-07-2004, 02:53 PM	#23
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,563	Daseal, I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend Spurrier all the time. The guy was a total flop at the NFL level. Once Lewis left he was completely lost. And the most telling thing was the offense regressed in his second year despite having more talent. Check out the numbers from 2002 compared to 2003, the offense was much worse across the board. 2002 2003 Some important stats to note: Points per game: 2002: 19.2 2003: 17.9 Passing yards per game: 2002: 203.4 2003: 187.9 Rushing yards per game: 2002: 118.1 2003: 103.3 Third down %: 2002: 39.8 2003: 34 Penalties: 2002: 116-972 2003: 124-1038 First downs: 2002: 303 2003: 272 He couldn't protect the QB, he refused to committ to running the ball, he wavered back and forth between doing things his way one week, then the next week he would have another "gameplan", and the well documented discipline problems were just inexcusable. He is a great college coach but at the NFL level he just couldn't cut it. His gimmicky offense was quickly diagnosed and eaten alive by NFL defenses. The only way he would have had success was if he scrapped his fun 'n' gun and went with a more traditional pro style of offense, and ultimately that's what led to him walking away, he realized he wasn't going to be successful doing it "his way", so why bother? The arguement that Gibbs has more pull so that's why he's put together a better staff doesn't hold much water to me. If Spurrier did his homework on putting together a staff Snyder would have gotten him the guys he needed. Instead, Spurrier had no clue how important coaching was at this level and went about "promoting" his college staff to the NFL where they were equally unqualified and out of their element as he was. Spurrier didn't even know how to run a training camp for gods' sake, Lewis was here in year 1 to basically be his mentor, (smart move by Snyder by the way). It's no surprise to me that the team fell apart after Lewis left, he was the glue that was holding things together. The thing about Spurrier is he never really seemed dedicated to learning the ropes of the NFL and putting in the blood, sweat and tears to make it happen. He assumed he could bring his high flying offense to the NFL and that would overcome everything else like coaching and leadership. He was in way over his head in the NFL and he all but admitted that by quitting after 2 seasons and leaving $15M on the table. And there's no comparison to him and guys like Jimmy Johnson who also struggled initially. The huge difference lies in their work ethics, or in Spurrier's case his lack thereof. The one thing I can respect about Spurrier is he realized this "experiment" wasn't working and he handed the keys back to Snyder and said go find someone who can make this work.

03-07-2004, 06:03 PM	#25
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I've always been a Spurrier fan and I always will be. Did he make mistakes, sure. I also said hypothetically if he had the staff we have now, he would have done fine in the NFL, a point you don't seem to be contending. If Gibbs goes and asks a great defensive coordinator to come to Washington he'll be much more likely to get him than Spurrier. I don't know how you can contest this. Coordinators want to go to teams with a shot just like players do. That's part of it. As you said, Lewis was the glue. When we had a respectable defense of course our offense will perform better. Why don't you pull total possessions per game out of that stat sheet. You should see there were far less this year than last. I think Spurrier can still be a head coach. He saw where his mistakes were and needs to fix him. I also think his work ethic is slightly under played. Yes, he'd leave early but I'm sure it wasn't all golf and sun for Spurrier. He has tons of room for improvement, but who doesnt. Here's a question for you, what if Gibbs goes 7-9 two years in a row. Are you going to jump all over him and say he can't coach at the NFL level anymore? Doubt it, you'll blame it on tons of circumstances. Just how it is when it's 'your guy.' Spurrier needed a better staff to be successful, he should have had Snyder upgrade, but he didn't know it would be so dreadful till last year. It's not like he had a long run.

03-07-2004, 08:34 PM	#27
Jamaican'Skin The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kingston, Jamaica Age: 38 Posts: 2,418	Wishful thinking.

03-07-2004, 08:41 PM	#28
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,563	Spurrier did have a quality defensive coordinator in Lewis. Are you saying he wouldn't have been able to land Williams as DC if he had stayed?? C'mon now, money talks just as much as "having a shot". Williams was the target for DC before Spurrier even left. Gibbs is smart enough to surround himself with a quality staff, why? Because he knows the value of coaching and leadership. Spurrier clearly missed the boat on this concept. He thought his offense would overcome everything. Spurrier is just another great college coach that couldn't hack it in the pros.

03-07-2004, 08:59 PM	#29
SittingBull Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Fairfax< VA Posts: 89	Spurrier is a great coach but one thing I despised about him was his lackadaisical attitude from the middle of the season on. In the beginning you could see he was determined with play calling and how the games were going but then he just looked like he gave up. Even when your initial plan is failing or failed I dont think a coach should just give up and hope for the best like he did. A good coach adapts and tries to focus on strengths and hide or make weaknesses negligble as much as possible. Spurrier didnt seem interested in doing that.

03-07-2004, 11:12 PM	#30
Ghost Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 298	Spurrier does not have what it takes to succeed on the pro level. Right now we're watching how a real coach assembles his team, how he prepares for a season. Gibbs ain't playing golf ... he's pulling all-nighters. If Spurrier put the time in and showed the level of dedication, discipline and commitment that is required, he would probably have been okay but he didn't and that's why he's unemployed today. Thank God Spurrier had the good sense to see that it wasn't working, because Snyder sure didn't ... if Steve hadn't walked away we would have had to endure another disappointing season.

Now that they're gone

Locker Room Main Forum