What's wrong with the passing game? (Non-JC edition)

[Dblock804]

Time for a new O line. Keep Chris and Steph., Cooley Yoder and Davis. Backs, Rock and Mike S. (play him or trade him), Betts or CP, just keep one, We need to be younger.

WR's Thrash, El, time for retirement. Just to old.

[GTripp0012]

It's hard to imagine Moss being in a situation where he is more the focal point of the offense than he is now. I think it's just the opposite sf69, I think this is what Moss is: a guy who can get 8-9 yards every time he touches the football, but instead of 6, 7, 7, 9, 10, Moss is more of a 0, 0, 0, 21, 35 type guy. The latter, IMO is significantly less valuable than the former, because we can't move the chains with all those zeros.

[redsk1]

SM is probably the 12th-15th best WR is the NFL. As a #1 WR on a team you'd like to be above 15th and preferrably above 10th.

Look at the game sunday as an example of a good passing game. Eli threw down field extremely accurately to his WR's. In many cases, his WR was the only one w/ a play on the ball, even though we covered it well. That's a combination of Eli and his WR's. Sometimes as an elite QB you need that accuracy. The WR's might not be WIDE open. Look at NY's wide receivers too: Burress, Toomer, Smith, Dixon, Moss. Does that tell you anything? They have talent and depth.

Ok top 15 WRs in no order

Boldin
Fitzgerald
Houshmanzadah
TO
Marshall
A Johnson
Greg Jennings
Steve Smith
Burress
Wayne
Calvin Johnson?
R Moss

Then S Moss maybe. So SM is most likely in the 10th-15th best WR in the NFL give or take. You'd like your best WR to be in the top 10 or at least in the top 15. If you're close to the 15th best then your #2 needs to be good, and ours isn't.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by redsk1

SM is probably the 12th-15th best WR is the NFL. As a #1 WR on a team you'd like to be above 15th and preferrably above 10th.

Look at the game sunday as an example of a good passing game. Eli threw down field extremely accurately to his WR's. In many cases, his WR was the only one w/ a play on the ball, even though we covered it well. That's a combination of Eli and his WR's. Sometimes as an elite QB you need that accuracy. The WR's might not be WIDE open. Look at NY's wide receivers too: Burress, Toomer, Smith, Dixon, Moss. Does that tell you anything? They have talent and depth.

Ok top 15 WRs in no order

Boldin
Fitzgerald
Houshmanzadah
TO
Marshall
A Johnson
Greg Jennings
Steve Smith
Burress
Wayne
Calvin Johnson?
R Moss

Then S Moss maybe. So SM is most likely in the 10th-15th best WR in the NFL give or take. You'd like your best WR to be in the top 10 or at least in the top 15. If you're close to the 15th best then your #2 needs to be good, and ours isn't.

Roddy White
Vincent Jackson
Hines Ward
Derrick Mason
Marques Colston
Jericho Cotchery
Lee Evans
Wes Welker

and Santana Moss

So I see Moss as a top 20 type still, so that's No. 1 WR quality, but again, it's hard to run a passing offense through this, much like it would be hard to run a passing offense through Randle El.

[CRedskinsRule]

I guess I'm just gonna start harping,
WR technique is bad, which means WR coaching probably is bad, we have gone through a bunch of WR's maybe it's time we get a new WR coach.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I guess I'm just gonna start harping,
WR technique is bad, which means WR coaching probably is bad, we have gone through a bunch of WR's maybe it's time we get a new WR coach.

I've wondered about this myself. We have supposedly talented guys who can't get on the field because they don't know the offense or don't run their routes correctly? I'm not putting it ALL on the coaching but it sounds like it could be better.

[skins6]

Campbell Drops To Deep--holds Ball To Long--does Not Play Like A Confident Qb--needs Shock Therapy--bench Him--start Collins. I Question Jason's Strength Of Leadership.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skins6

Campbell Drops To Deep--holds Ball To Long--does Not Play Like A Confident Qb--needs Shock Therapy--bench Him--start Collins. I Question Jason's Strength Of Leadership.

I Question Why You Capitalize Every Word--but That Does Not Mean You Should Be Benched--does It?

[MTK]

Cooley leads the team with 66 catches (on pace for 88) and Randle El is 3rd with 43 (on pace for 57). Not sure how anyone can say Moss is the only guy he throws to.

[sportscurmudgeon]

What's wrong with the Skins' passing game is not a single thing; there are several components. However, please consider the following:


At the end of the 2007 season most folks here thought - correctly - that wide receiver was an area that needed upgrading in the off-season. CLEARLY, the front office and the coaching staff must have thought it needed a bit of tweaking too because they spent the first three draft picks taking pass-catchers.


It is now December and the WR corps for the 2008 Redskins is the same group of people as for the 2007 Redskins - - the same guys who didn't get it done last year and presented the team with a need to "upgrade".


GRTripp0012 has it right about Moss. He makes a couple of huge gains and a bunch of no gains on his catches. He is the #1 receiver here by default but isn't a great lead receiver. Perhaps he attains the level of "slightly above average".


A big problem is that none of the three rookie pass-catchers has done diddley-squat all season long. So far, Kelly's contribution is that he may drop the highest percentage of passes to hit him in the hands in the history of the NFL. He has made Rod Gardner look like a guy doing an instructional video on how to catch a football.


Until and unless the new guys add something to the pass-catching mix, we are left to deal with Albert Einstein's definition of insanity ...

... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

[bigm29]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

What's wrong with the Skins' passing game is not a single thing; there are several components. However, please consider the following:


At the end of the 2007 season most folks here thought - correctly - that wide receiver was an area that needed upgrading in the off-season. CLEARLY, the front office and the coaching staff must have thought it needed a bit of tweaking too because they spent the first three draft picks taking pass-catchers.


It is now December and the WR corps for the 2008 Redskins is the same group of people as for the 2007 Redskins - - the same guys who didn't get it done last year and presented the team with a need to "upgrade".


GRTripp0012 has it right about Moss. He makes a couple of huge gains and a bunch of no gains on his catches. He is the #1 receiver here by default but isn't a great lead receiver. Perhaps he attains the level of "slightly above average".


A big problem is that none of the three rookie pass-catchers has done diddley-squat all season long. So far, Kelly's contribution is that he may drop the highest percentage of passes to hit him in the hands in the history of the NFL. He has made Rod Gardner look like a guy doing an instructional video on how to catch a football.


Until and unless the new guys add something to the pass-catching mix, we are left to deal with Albert Einstein's definition of insanity ...

... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

I never thought about it that way. You are definitely on to something here and I think you may be right. And it really makes feel bad for Campbell and better about his future as well if his supporting cast can step up. Even this season he has not been perfect but besides the running game (being the only successful element of the offense) the pass protection, wide recievers, and playcalling are all to blame more than campbell.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Cooley leads the team with 66 catches (on pace for 88) and Randle El is 3rd with 43 (on pace for 57). Not sure how anyone can say Moss is the only guy he throws to.

Is ARE catching passes that move the chains? Or is he really helping us get in the end zone? No. Stats don't really tell the truth. Especially in this offense. Yesterday Plax is out and Hixon comes in and catches a bunch of balls that are for 1st downs. He moved the chains. That's the difference. Some of that's on the coaches and JC. We need to start throwing deeper routes or getting more guys down the field.

[PennSkinsFan]

Pass protection and lack of a second receiver a defense actually respects. That's it.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Is ARE catching passes that move the chains? Or is he really helping us get in the end zone? No. Stats don't really tell the truth. Especially in this offense. Yesterday Plax is out and Hixon comes in and catches a bunch of balls that are for 1st downs. He moved the chains. That's the difference. Some of that's on the coaches and JC. We need to start throwing deeper routes or getting more guys down the field.

Actually he is, I think GTripp can take over from here.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Is ARE catching passes that move the chains? Or is he really helping us get in the end zone? No. Stats don't really tell the truth. Especially in this offense. Yesterday Plax is out and Hixon comes in and catches a bunch of balls that are for 1st downs. He moved the chains. That's the difference. Some of that's on the coaches and JC. We need to start throwing deeper routes or getting more guys down the field.

He's got something like 25 first downs this year, so I'd say that would be a resounding yes. Not even a half-hearted yes. Resounding.

Randle El and Cooley are not your problem children when the argument is about sustaining offense. Campbell, yes at times. Moss, yes at times. Kelly, Yoder, Thomas, Davis, Thrash...yes times 100.