Could Holmgren Be the End Game?

[Joe Kidd]

Does anyone remember that when Holmgren first went to Seattle he also had GM duties and they ended up stripping him of that. So why would we want him to handle head coach and GM duties for us?? I think he already proved he wasn't a great fit for that dual role.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Joe Kidd

Does anyone remember that when Holmgren first went to Seattle he also had GM duties and they ended up stripping him of that. So why would we want him to handle head coach and GM duties for us?? I think he already proved he wasn't a great fit for that dual role.

I wouldn't want him as HC, but maybe as team prez/GM. Not too many HC's also make good GM's at the same time. But seperate from each other...

Zorn and Holmgren are close, Holmgren's coaching tree is impeccable, and he is the King of WCO in the current NFL (with Bill Walsh gone that is.). I would have no issue whatsoever bringing in Holmgren as the team's GM/advisor to Zorn. In fact I would welcome it.

But as JLC repeatedly points out, this is big-time speculation at this point.

[freddyg12]

Vinny was promoted when Gibbs retired, so he is effectively the GM/Pres., it's all semantics really. Holmgren would likely only want the job if he had either 1) the head coach position, or 2) Vinny's job.

I like the sound of Holmgren maybe going to Dallas. While I like him & think he's a good head coach, I think the fact that he's been talking retirement for a while makes him not an ideal coaching candidate. Do you really want a head coach that seems so undecided on whether to coach or not? Let the cowpokes hire him, his heart won't be in it enough to deal w/JJ et al.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Vinny was promoted when Gibbs retired, so he is effectively the GM/Pres., it's all semantics really. Holmgren would likely only want the job if he had either 1) the head coach position, or 2) Vinny's job.

I like the sound of Holmgren maybe going to Dallas. While I like him & think he's a good head coach, I think the fact that he's been talking retirement for a while makes him not an ideal coaching candidate. Do you really want a head coach that seems so undecided on whether to coach or not? Let the cowpokes hire him, his heart won't be in it enough to deal w/JJ et al.

Vinny got the GM title but he didn't get the President title that Gibbs had. They could give Holmgren the same job Parcels has in Miami without demoting Vinny at all. I don't know that he wants that but there is an opening in the skins current front office structure for a new President.

[RMSkins]

I wouldn't mind this scenario, and it would most likely mean that Cerrato is gone.

[SBXVII]

How is it all of a sudden now we hear that Holmgren is Snyders boy? Snyder wanted Gibbs when he bought the team and Gibbs said no. Gibbs comes back and Cowher retires. Snyder tries for Cowher because supposedly Snyder likes him and respects him and is..."his boy." Now we hear rumblings about Holmgren?
Wasn't Cowher a defensive coach? or am I wrong. We could keep Zorn if he chooses to stay by simply making Cowher HC and keeping Zorn for OC and QB and runing the offensive side of the ball. The big question is would Zorn step back and say I'd rather just be a OC all the other stuff was to much? and even saying, I was impressed with Zorn for 8 games of the season, I am not impressed with the latter 8 games of the season and how he can't adjust his offense to create wins. I'm not impressed with how he can't adjust his offense during half time in order to pull out a win. Hell at this point I'm more impressed with the fact that Spurrier was able to do more of these things and lose then Zorn. So unless he lights it up the last two games and shows he can make adjustments and make this system work somehow.....I can see him being let go or someone being hired to tutor him....perhaps it's Holmgren, but Holmgren is not Snyders boy....we all know that's Cowher. If he can get him he will get him. No matter the cost.
As someone else pointed out. This team is probubly the best team for him to want to come to. He would not coach a team that is a rival to Pitt. It would make him look bad. So Cincy's out as well as the Browns. He would be stupid to work for the Raiders which he's not. As long as I've lived I can't remember Detroit ever having a winning record. lol. So Detroits out. I'm not sure of any other teams who would be looking. Keep in mind his daughter supposedly went to a school near by. This would enable him to see more of her games and be more active in her life. Something stated before also.

and Celts, as for the "Snyder tried to get Cowher and Cowher said no" ....Cowher was sticking to his time limit he claimed he would take as well as his other responsibilities to networks. He said something like I'm taking 2-3 yrs off. This would be the year he would be coming back according to his original wording. I believe because he probably made a promise to his wife or something and second kid not to move them out of the schools they were in. I thought he had a younger daughter who would be graduating HS. about now. could be wrong.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

How is it all of a sudden now we hear that Holmgren is Snyders boy? Snyder wanted Gibbs when he bought the team and Gibbs said no. Gibbs comes back and Cowher retires. Snyder tries for Cowher because supposedly Snyder likes him and respects him and is..."his boy." Now we hear rumblings about Holmgren?
Wasn't Cowher a defensive coach? or am I wrong. We could keep Zorn if he chooses to stay by simply making Cowher HC and keeping Zorn for OC and QB and runing the offensive side of the ball. The big question is would Zorn step back and say I'd rather just be a OC all the other stuff was to much? and even saying, I was impressed with Zorn for 8 games of the season, I am not impressed with the latter 8 games of the season and how he can't adjust his offense to create wins. I'm not impressed with how he can't adjust his offense during half time in order to pull out a win. Hell at this point I'm more impressed with the fact that Spurrier was able to do more of these things and lose then Zorn. So unless he lights it up the last two games and shows he can make adjustments and make this system work somehow.....I can see him being let go or someone being hired to tutor him....perhaps it's Holmgren, but Holmgren is not Snyders boy....we all know that's Cowher. If he can get him he will get him. No matter the cost.
As someone else pointed out. This team is probubly the best team for him to want to come to. He would not coach a team that is a rival to Pitt. It would make him look bad. So Cincy's out as well as the Browns. He would be stupid to work for the Raiders which he's not. As long as I've lived I can't remember Detroit ever having a winning record. lol. So Detroits out. I'm not sure of any other teams who would be looking. Keep in mind his daughter supposedly went to a school near by. This would enable him to see more of her games and be more active in her life. Something stated before also.

Danny went for Cowher last year becuase he was the biggest name with the biggest list of accomplishments. Cowher wanted control, Snyder said no (because he's a control freak and attached to Vinny), so Cowher said see ya.

All these people who automatically think Zorn would accept a demotion after one season are crazy. Why is this being suggested so much around here? It simply doesn't happen in the NFL. No one expected much more than a 7-9 or 8-8 record out of Zorn in year 1. That's what he's going to deliver, despite having to implement a brand new offense and work with many coaches with whom he had no previous experience. He had never even been a coordinator, did anyone really think there wouldn't be road bumps??

I wouldn't say the Browns are out for The Chin. Cowher played for, then coached for the Browns long before he had any affiliation to Pittsburgh. Marty Schottenheimer coached the Cheifs for a long time, then went to divsion-rival San Deigo. There's a long list of stuff like this. It wouldn't make Cowher look bad at all to go back to his roots. The only bitter people would be Steelers fans, however the Steelers may be better off now than they were with Cowher. Mike Tomlin is doing a fantastic job (albeit with Dick LeBeau's help) in Pitt.

[MTK]

I've asked this before, maybe someone can help me out. Has a HC ever lost his job and stayed on as OC somewhere? People drop that idea like it's a common thing in the NFL. I've just never heard of such a thing being a reality.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I've asked this before, maybe someone can help me out. Has a HC ever lost his job and stayed on as OC somewhere? People drop that idea like it's a common thing in the NFL. I've just never heard of such a thing being a reality.

Closest example of that is Dave Campo. Head Coach until Parcels arrived after 2002 then took a position as secondary coach this year.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I've asked this before, maybe someone can help me out. Has a HC ever lost his job and stayed on as OC somewhere? People drop that idea like it's a common thing in the NFL. I've just never heard of such a thing being a reality.

Gunther Cunningham, but it wasn't like a demotion. It was a firing, then a re-hiring like three years later.

[SBXVII]

Matty, I'm only suggesting cause I'm looking for your exact question to be answered. I don't think it's ever happened. I also don't think Zorn would take being demoted. or would the league allow a demotion.

[SBXVII]

GM, I had no idea of the whole control thing. I understood it to be Snyder asked if he would take the job and Cowher said no he wanted to sit out one more year plus he had commitments to the networks.

I have to be honest. I can't imagine any coach taking a job he is not going to have 100% control, other then a new coach looking for a promotion. I think it's ok for Snyder to want to have input as to who should be hired or let go or how much money to spend on any given player but other wise allow the coach to assemble his team. Allow the coach to evaluate the players. Allow the coach to pick the players he needs in the draft. All his input should be is a bonified suggestion. I know , I know its his business , his toy, his play thing, but if he wants a winning team he has to let go of the passifier.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

GM, I had no idea of the whole control thing. I understood it to be Snyder asked if he would take the job and Cowher said no he wanted to sit out one more year plus he had commitments to the networks.

I have to be honest. I can't imagine any coach taking a job he is not going to have 100% control, other then a new coach looking for a promotion. I think it's ok for Snyder to want to have input as to who should be hired or let go or how much money to spend on any given player but other wise allow the coach to assemble his team. Allow the coach to evaluate the players. Allow the coach to pick the players he needs in the draft. All his input should be is a bonified suggestion. I know , I know its his business , his toy, his play thing, but if he wants a winning team he has to let go of the passifier.

Well, Parcells did it in Dallas. I remember him being interviewed while he was still with ESPN right before he took the Dallas job. When asked how he'd like not having full control of personnel, Parcells said, "I don't need that."

I think there are more coaches than we think who are willing to cede personnel decisions to someone else. Whether they'd want to work here is another matter.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

GM, I had no idea of the whole control thing. I understood it to be Snyder asked if he would take the job and Cowher said no he wanted to sit out one more year plus he had commitments to the networks.

I have to be honest. I can't imagine any coach taking a job he is not going to have 100% control, other then a new coach looking for a promotion. I think it's ok for Snyder to want to have input as to who should be hired or let go or how much money to spend on any given player but other wise allow the coach to assemble his team. Allow the coach to evaluate the players. Allow the coach to pick the players he needs in the draft. All his input should be is a bonified suggestion. I know , I know its his business , his toy, his play thing, but if he wants a winning team he has to let go of the passifier.

SB- I don't know if it went down the exact way I said it, however I do know that Snyder apparently reached out to him, and from what I understand Cowher's lack of interest stemmed from two things: he wanted more time away from the game, and if he was to return he wanted full control.

[celts32]

To suggest Cowher you have to first believe that Snyder will fire VC...one can't happen without the other.