Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by GMScud

You keep saying Campbell is a poor fit for the WCO, but you don't say why. He's big and mobile, we've seen him run, and he has a huge arm. I think his physical attributes are a good fit for any system. He has the size and poise to be strictly a pocket passer, but also the legs to scramble if he needs to.

I for one would like to see us use the shotgun more often.

the reasons why have been pointed out by some experts before the season started and are still being echoed at seasons end . . . does not get the ball out quick enough, does not have a quick release and a subjective reason is that some question whether he can read a D and make proper decisions . . .

JC is good, entering his 5th and last season of his K we still dont know if he is worth an extension. JC failed to quiet the doubters this year, hopefully he can put it together next year. I would love to see him be a skin for a long time, but he needs to progress at some point.

go skins!!

[holcknowsbest]

Originally Posted by GMScud

You keep saying Campbell is a poor fit for the WCO, but you don't say why. He's big and mobile, we've seen him run, and he has a huge arm. I think his physical attributes are a good fit for any system. He has the size and poise to be strictly a pocket passer, but also the legs to scramble if he needs to.

I for one would like to see us use the shotgun more often.

ha here is the reason he is a poor fit, he cant make a quick decision. if zorn wants campbells moneys worth he needs to dial up the down field passes......he does have a cannon but he holds the ball and waits for a perfect situation and never uses that cannon.......he needs to anticipate better........the mark of a good quarterback in the nfl has nothing to do with physical attributes, that is to wow people. A good qb anticipates defenses and is able to manipulate coverages with what he does after the ball is snapped. jason campbell is a robot to me........if he every starts acting like a qb i will be behind him 100 percent but until he proves hes not a bust, i think he is the wrong fit. i just havent seen much i liked in 5 yrs. now and counting.........

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Sorry, but Jason Campbell is not a starting WCO quarterback and he never will be. The dude's 28 and we're still making excuses for him. Hes too scared to throw anything other than a check down or crossing pattern. The guy has no balls, its as simple as that.

We need to sign Garcia to groom Brennan if we plan on sticking with the WCO another year. JC will fail in the WCO in 2009 and that will only hurt his trade value. We should move him now for whatever we can get. Jason Campbell is not the future here. The sooner we move on, the better.

Following your logic, we never should have fired Al Saunders. I believe that Campbell has the requisite skills to succeed in any system if we would pick one, stick to it, and allow him to develop. Campbell was MUCH better in his first year starting in a WCO than Hasselbeck was in Seattle, and we can all agree that Hasselbeck developed into a pretty good WCO QB. Note that it wasn't until his 3rd year running Seattle's WCO that Hasselbeck started playing at a Pro Bowl level.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Following your logic, we never should have fired Al Saunders. I believe that Campbell has the requisite skills to succeed in any system if we would pick one, stick to it, and allow him to develop. Campbell was MUCH better in his first year starting in a WCO than Hasselbeck was in Seattle, and we can all agree that Hasselbeck developed into a pretty good WCO QB. Note that it wasn't until his 3rd year running Seattle's WCO that Hasselbeck started playing at a Pro Bowl level.

Man would'nt that be great. I just heard Jeff Fisher say how important continuity and stability is to an organization. I'd be pretty happy to just have the same offense for 3 years in a row. I'm sure JC would too.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Sorry, but Jason Campbell is not a starting WCO quarterback and he never will be. The dude's 28 and we're still making excuses for him. Hes too scared to throw anything other than a check down or crossing pattern. The guy has no balls, its as simple as that.

We need to sign Garcia to groom Brennan if we plan on sticking with the WCO another year. JC will fail in the WCO in 2009 and that will only hurt his trade value. We should move him now for whatever we can get. Jason Campbell is not the future here. The sooner we move on, the better.

I agree to some extent about JC and then some. JC definitely has the tools and I can understand some optimism about him if the line is upgraded for next season. The thing that bothered me was that during the last several weeks of the season, during the worst time of the collapse, he showed no leadership, or urgency. It took him almost the end of the year to learn to take off with the football if everyone was blanketed? God damn, Flacco did that all year!!!!!! You can say all you want about having 3 different offensive schemes thrown at you in 5 seasons, but you still should know how to run with it or show leadership at the NFL level. Also about JC is the fact Gibbs drafted him with HIS offense in mind, so JC just might be hindered by that fact you have mentioned that he might not be a WCO QB. At Auburn he was accustomed to an offense that was sort of like Gibbs, a strong running game with a downfield passing attack. I am hoping he can adjust to the WCO in '09 like the Goat thinks he will, but to me it is still a 50-50 proposition.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

I agree to some extent about JC and then some. JC definitely has the tools and I can understand some optimism about him if the line is upgraded for next season. The thing that bothered me was that during the last several weeks of the season, during the worst time of the collapse, he showed no leadership, or urgency. It took him almost the end of the year to learn to take off with the football if everyone was blanketed? God damn, Flacco did that all year!!!!!! You can say all you want about having 3 different offensive schemes thrown at you in 5 seasons, but you still should know how to run with it or show leadership at the NFL level. Also about JC is the fact Gibbs drafted him with HIS offense in mind, so JC just might be hindered by that fact you have mentioned that he might not be a WCO QB. At Auburn he was accustomed to an offense that was sort of like Gibbs, a strong running game with a downfield passing attack. I am hoping he can adjust to the WCO in '09 like the Goat thinks he will, but to me it is still a 50-50 proposition.

I think that's a fair argument. I'll tell you what perplexed me more is why he looked so different from the first part of the season to the last. He looked very good for a while. So he can do it. Were going to have to wait and see

[30gut]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

The thing that bothered me was that during the last several weeks of the season, during the worst time of the collapse, he showed no leadership, or urgency.

C'mon bro, you didn't see leadership?

Why because JC doesn't yell at lineman when they miss blocks or receivers when they drop passes?

I saw leadership when he marched down the field and scored against the 49ers.

I saw leadership when he lead the team down the field against the Bengals. (Sellars couldn't get in for the score though)

I saw leadership when he was delivering passes on target in the face of oncoming rush then getting blasted by defensive lineman and getting right back up.

I saw leadership in the comeback victories.

It took him almost the end of the year to learn to take off with the football if everyone was blanketed? God damn, Flacco did that all year!!!!!! You can say all you want about having 3 different offensive schemes thrown at you in 5 seasons, but you still should know how to run with it or show leadership at the NFL level.

Did you watch the games? B/c JC has been picking up yards all season.

Flacco rushing yards: 52 attempts 180 yards 3.5 avg 2 TDs
Campbell: 47 attempts 258 yards 5.5 avg 1 TD

Actually QFT:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Campbell is one of the best quarterbacks in the league in terms of carrying the football, only Matt Cassel was a more effective runner this year according to Football Outsiders.

so JC just might be hindered by that fact you have mentioned that he might not be a WCO QB.

Not a good fit huh?

Do you just ignore the posts that you don't agree with?

2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
^^Hasselbecks 1st year running the WCO after a year watching in GB

2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating
^^ JC 1st year in Zorn's WCO

It would appear that our QB is ahead of the WCO learning curve huh?
Looks like he's a good fit huh?

"I thought Jason would eventually play well under Jim Zorn," ESPN Monday Night Football analyst Ron Jaworski says. "I didn't think he'd play this well, this early.
"I've seen his game ascending. He can make every throw a quarterback has to have, the tough stick throw, the deep out, the seam route. He has great anticipation. I thought he'd become a rock-solid quarterback.
"That it's happened this quickly really is a tribute to Jim Zorn."

At Auburn he was accustomed to an offense that was sort of like Gibbs, a strong running game with a downfield passing attack.

Wrong again. In JC final year when Auburn went undefeated and JC was SEC offensive player of the year and SEC Championship MVP JC under OC Al Borges ran the drum roll please...the WCO

[MTK]

^^ I like how people add on years when it's convenient for their argument, or lack of one.

JC is not 28, he just turned 27 today.

Zorn seems to strongly disagree with your take so get ready for JC at the helm again next year.

[holcknowsbest]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

^^ I like how people add on years when it's convenient for their argument, or lack of one.

JC is not 28, he just turned 27 today.

Zorn seems to strongly disagree with your take so get ready for JC at the helm again next year.

yeah he says all the right things for sure........but i am pretty sure that even jim zorn knows that if JC doesnt thwo 20 touches next year he will not be resigned nor should he, so far he is a bust. i dont care how many systems hes been in, hes just like every other first round bust......make excuses for him until finally you cant anymore.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by holcknowsbest

yeah he says all the right things for sure........but i am pretty sure that even jim zorn knows that if JC doesnt thwo 20 touches next year he will not be resigned nor should he, so far he is a bust. i dont care how many systems hes been in, hes just like every other first round bust......make excuses for him until finally you cant anymore.

I guess it's the easy way out to write off 3 offenses in 4 years as an excuse, but logically it's a pretty reasonable explanation as to why his growth as a QB has been stunted a bit. He's far from being a bust, I don't even know where a take like that is coming from.

[44ever]

I hate to agree with the boot for smoot but sadly it's true. IMO. As far as JC. I hope he comes out all grown up next season! His troubles can only be attributed to a few things.
1) He really is afraid to throw the ball ( I doubt it) or
2) The play calling lacks! And has become extreamly conservitive!
Hence why we can never seem to put a game away. The calling seems to get more conservative as the game goes on. (remember going for it on forth down earlier in the season?) where did that agressive play calling go ?Well that's for another post.

I think zorn over protected that 6-2 record and was just as suprised as we were. I believe. We will see a more aggresive play call next season and a post season.

Need to keep Rogers, hall and take our chances with Springs.

[Daseal]

John Riggins recently said he doesn't think Campbell is the answer, and I'm starting to lean that way. I feel bad for the kid not getting a chance to grow in a single offense for more than two years. I'll give him next year, but it may be time to start preparing for a new era in DC.

[The Goat]

I don't really follow the reasoning behind keeping Springs. W/ Hall and Rogers we have two excellent corners and need a nickel. There's got to be some decent talent in the market for less than half the cost of Springs' ridiculous cap hit. Aside, he won't be necessary @ safety IMO. Next year we'll have Landry/Horton starting and Moore/Doughty for back-up and all will have another year of improvement under their belts.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by The Goat

1.) Addressing the offensive line must be the #1 priority. Actually tough to know where to begin here. Just consider for a moment the '07 unit, which endured an uncanny series of injuries, gave up 28 total sacks, while this season's relatively healthy unit gave up 38 total sacks. Certainly young talent is needed; however, am I the only fan wondering whether it's time for a new position coach? Absolutely no disrespect to Buges. Can't even imagine what he endured over the course of the season w/ his daughter passing away, but I wonder whether he is looking beyond football at this point (and rightfully so).

The 'O7 season is a good example of Buges ability. Considering all that happened in his life this season and his past track record Buges deserves to stay if he wants. I would like to see him get a yonf offensive line assistant that is familiar with zone blocking and WCO blocking schemes.

Also, a little more talent would help.

2) Shawn Springs will not be a Redskin in '09. Way too much time on the sideline, and his final showing was anything but impressive. Also, consider the cap hit.

Maybe so, unless he restructures and moves to safety.

3) Smoot... holy crap! I can't believe this is the same player I watched pick off passes left and right opposite Bailey. He's gone or there's some kind of conspiracy.

Bye-bye Smooter

... implications of Springs/Smoot: Hall will be signed and Rogers retained. I think the rumors surrounding Rogers departure must be bogus. The guy's only real issue was the hoof-hands and he finally makes a pretty impressive INT to end the season. C'mon, we have to keep him. But we need a third corner, and here's where cutting Torrence was a mistake IMO.

Maybe we could get Torrence or Richardson back this offseason.

4) Stan Hixon must go. Nuff said.

Agreed. Nothing against Stan except for the progress of the rookie WRs.
But, more importantly why not get a WCO WR coach on staff?

5) Campbell will be money next year (mark it, dude). He's started coming into his own. I loved the way he took off for yards when everybody was covered. But most importantly, Zorn has committed to developing JC into a great QB. JC will be much improved therefor, so long as we make some smart personnel/staff changes, our offense will be much improved.

Agreed. When the pass-pro improves the offense can be more aggressive/vertcal the receivers will have to step up too.

[over the mountain]

^^^ lol nah man i dont expect him to be peyton or brady, but he does have room and certain areas to improve on. hes done enough good things and enough bad things that reasonably intelligent people can debate his abilities.

gmscud - your right he has improved in those areas and that fact is not lost on me.

to be clear I like JC, he has all the physical tools and seems like a great character guy. but i know he, like most of our team, has to play better for this team to take the next step. he does have some room for improvement.

go skins!!