If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

You don't really believe that Springs, Washington, and Griffin will be healthy enough to make a difference next year, do you? They'll each play four games healthy, four games hurt, and miss eight games. That is not acceptable.

Jansen/Heyer = Disaster at RT. You may fear too much change, but surely you would agree that this position must be improved, wouldn't you?

Taylor would need to play much, much better next season to be worth the money. I seriously doubt that he will.

First on RT, I totally agree an improvement is needed. Jansen can't pass block and Heyer can't run block. Simple as that. That's one position where I'd absolutely make my move, and would probably use the first rounder on it.

On Washington I totally agree he's too injury prone and not effective enough. That's why I have the team cutting him in my cap thread.

On Springs, I don't agree. Springs was STILL the best CB on our team last year when healthy, and I don't see any chronic medical conditions that would lead me to believe he'll be unhealthy next year. Remember, just last year he played all 16 games for us. If you have arthritic knees or something that will nag you all season, that's one thing. But to have an acute calf injury to a guy who stays in shape with the best of them and to say he'll be hurt all year - there's no reason that's accurate.

On Griffin, they gu misses a few games each season, has for the past five years. I could go either way on him. On one hand it's not like he's missing tons of time, but on the other he does get hit with nagging things which he plays through, but reduces his effectiveness. But you can't argue with his ability to clog running lanes, he's still a big reason we ended up doing so well against the run. I really don't see how a Rocky Bernard is an upgrade, other than the health factor.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Taylor would need to play much, much better next season to be worth the money. I seriously doubt that he will.

So restructure him.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I think Washington is done.

As for Griffin, I agree with what you said about the quality of his play; however, he just hasn't stayed healthy enough to be on the field as much as we need him to be on it. Rocky Bernard had over twice as many tackles as CG and he had 4 sacks (CG had 1). That's a lot more production for the money.

When it comes to DL, stats do not tell the entire story. The best and most disruptive DL frequently get double teamed, which opens the door for inferior line mates to swoop in and get the glory stats.
An example that comes to mind is Dave Butz. I can not tell you haw many times he would get double teamed and the DE or LB on his side would get the sacks.
When Griffen is healthy, he is the rock of our D-line. We do not have another DT of his abilities. Griffen would have to be replaced if we got rid of him.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

So restructure him.

Why would JT want to restructure? There's nothing in it for him except less $.

[davelavarra]

All Cerrato need to keep his job is stop listening to Snyder, I guess. We've thrown away so many picks, this year is no different. We need an immediate upgrade at DE and OT, but Vinnie and friends don't seem to get it.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

If it is true that Vinny Cerrato and Jim Zorn must make the playoffs next season to keep their jobs, then what would you do to improve the team if you were in their shoes?

I’ve looked at Schneed10’s excellent Salary Cap Status – 2009 thread (I’m not going to summarize it here, so you may need to read it yourself to follow along) and, if I were Vinny or Jim, I’d make most of the moves that he mentioned but I would go further because I would need to feel that I had addressed the things that were most likely to cost me my job.

We can’t count on a new CBA, so we need to deal with putting next year’s team together with the salary cap the way it is right now. Schneed10 projects the Skins to be $0.6M under the cap after making the moves he foresees. Those moves include cutting Marcus Washington and salary reductions for Jason Taylor and Shawn Springs. That’s obviously not enough money to address our most critical needs in Free Agency and I don’t think that we can count on any drafted player to fill a critical need next season, so more cuts or trades will need to be made if V&J are to keep their jobs.

There aren’t that many places to look to free up cap space. As it turns out, some of the players who could be cut or traded are injury prone and injuries are a major factor in a team’s success or failure. If a player can’t stay on the field, then he is not going to help the team to get to the playoffs. So, I would not re-sign Shawn Springs and Cornelius Griffin, thus saving $6.7M against the cap. They may be our best CB and DT, respectively, but if they’re not on the field, it doesn’t matter.

With Phillip Daniels coming back, Jason Taylor will probably be used as a hybrid LB/DE or, worse, as a part-time DE. I’d pass on that a $4.0M price tag (assuming he accepts a salary reduction). By not re-signing him, we save another $4.5M.

With the projected emergence of the young WR’s and TE, we could also release James Thrash and Todd Yoder, thus saving another $1.6M.

Those moves would put us $13.4M under the current salary cap.

Now what do we do? First, we desperately need a RT to protect JC. I’d sign FA RT Stacy Andrews. Second, we need a solid DT. I’d sign FA DT Rocky Bernard who has much of the same skill set as Griffin, only he’s younger, healthier and, therefore, more productive. Thirdly, if there’s enough cap space remaining after those signings, I’d try to pick up a FA LB.

If there is a new CBA and, with it, an increase in the salary cap, then I’d go after FA LB Karlos Dansby to replace Marcus Washington.

We need a game breaker. So, in the draft, I’d select Percy Harvin (I assume he’ll be in the draft) who could be our “Slash” as a PR/KR/RB/Slot Receiver. Yes, I know we need to draft linemen, and we will. But first, I need to keep my job. So, we’re bringing in proven, but still young, FA players to fill our greatest needs and drafting a home run hitter to help us score more points.

Dude, you had me until you said draft Harvin. The LAST thing we need is another WR. Do you want to be the Detroit Lions, throwing all of our resources at that one position? Assuming we could sign the linemen you mention, I would still want the FO to draft additional linemen at the top of our draft.

[steven4est]

dude we def shouldnt trade chris horton for a draft pick..............he was a steal hes dirt cheap and hes awesome hes a future player trading him would be dumb

[davelavarra]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If I were ME, and I had Vinnys Job, I

Trade
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)

Sorry, but how can we get rid of Horton after the monster season he's had?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by irish

Why would JT want to restructure? There's nothing in it for him except less $.

He's already admitted he's not worth $8M, so the Skins should either cut him or make play for less, or give him something like a 2 year deal worth $8M so he can at least have a reasonable cap figure and still earn his dough.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

First on RT, I totally agree an improvement is needed. Jansen can't pass block and Heyer can't run block. Simple as that. That's one position where I'd absolutely make my move, and would probably use the first rounder on it.

On Washington I totally agree he's too injury prone and not effective enough. That's why I have the team cutting him in my cap thread.

On Springs, I don't agree. Springs was STILL the best CB on our team last year when healthy, and I don't see any chronic medical conditions that would lead me to believe he'll be unhealthy next year. Remember, just last year he played all 16 games for us. If you have arthritic knees or something that will nag you all season, that's one thing. But to have an acute calf injury to a guy who stays in shape with the best of them and to say he'll be hurt all year - there's no reason that's accurate.

On Griffin, they gu misses a few games each season, has for the past five years. I could go either way on him. On one hand it's not like he's missing tons of time, but on the other he does get hit with nagging things which he plays through, but reduces his effectiveness. But you can't argue with his ability to clog running lanes, he's still a big reason we ended up doing so well against the run. I really don't see how a Rocky Bernard is an upgrade, other than the health factor.

Was not Heyer not the starting RT when in the begining of the season when we could run the ball and winning games?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Was not Heyer not the starting RT when in the begining of the season when we could run the ball and winning games?

No, Jansen was starting when the running game took off and Heyer couldn't get back into the lineup.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by davelavarra

All Cerrato need to keep his job is stop listening to Snyder, I guess. We've thrown away so many picks, this year is no different. We need an immediate upgrade at DE and OT, but Vinnie and friends don't seem to get it.

If you stopped listening to YOUR boss, what are the chances that would help you KEEP your job?

[ST21RIP]

not draft sh*theads.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by davelavarra

Sorry, but how can we get rid of Horton after the monster season he's had?

Horton plays SS. Landry should be playing SS. The only reason he's not is he had to move to FS to accomodate Doughty (last year) and Horton (this year). We deliberately brought in Schwiegert (or whatever the heck his name was) last year in hopes that Landry could move back to SS. However, it didnt work out and when the season began, Doughty and Landry were our best two safeties on our roster so Landry "stayed" at SS.

Then Doughty got hurt and Kareem Moore was not ready so Horton came in. The Plan all along was to move Springs to Safety at some point. Unfortunately, he was injured alot this year and when he was healthy, Smoot was playing horrible so Rogers and Springs were our best two corners... Springs wasnt able to move to safety until we acquired Hall and we had more corner depth. When we did, who was the first man off the field? Chris Horton. Horton is a poor mans Laron Landry and if we keep him as our starting SS, Landry is going to be wasted at FS.

Kareem Moore (a natural FS) showed much more promise in training camp last year than Horton, but was held back by injuries early on in the year. He made a few "rookie mistakes" this year, but he really started to come in to his own as the season neared its end.

Is Horton a really good player? YES. Is he one of the best draft picks this team has made in recent memory? YES. Those are all arguments for keeping him... but they are also arguments for trading him as his value high. He's a young, but somewhat proven player, and many teams would likely rather trade a 2nd round pick for a proven 1 year vet with tons of upside than take a chance on an unproven guy with that 2nd round pick in the draft.

In the end, what it comes down to (for me) is this - Is our team better with:

A: Rogers and Hall at CB with Horton at SS and Landry at FS

OR

B: Rogers and Hall at CB with Landry at SS (where he will be able to make more plays) and Springs (who is our best DB when healthy) at FS, while grooming Moore as his replacement... AND a 2nd round pick to upgrade our defensive line/LB corps?

In both cases, we've got a pretty darn good defensive backfield. But In my opinion, Option B is the way to go:
1. It puts our best 4 DBs on the field at the same time
2. It puts Landry, a former top 10 pick, in the position to do what we drafted him to do.
3. It allows us to trade a player at a position of depth in exchange for a draft pick that SHOULD yield a starter for this team in 2009. (I say should because it all depends on Vinny making a wise selection with the 2nd rounder. Its understandable that none of the 2nd rounders contributed this year. WRs usually dont produce much their rookie seasons. Next year, we should be addressing our lines and LB positon with our 1st day picks. Players at those positions make an easier transition to the pro-level, so hopefully a 2nd round pick would be starting for us next year.)

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Dude, you had me until you said draft Harvin. The LAST thing we need is another WR. Do you want to be the Detroit Lions, throwing all of our resources at that one position? Assuming we could sign the linemen you mention, I would still want the FO to draft additional linemen at the top of our draft.

I can't blame you for calling me out on Harvin. I was reaching to try to find some way to get more explosiveness into our offense.

In my (weak) defense, I was thinking of Harvin as a threat out of the backfield as well as a KR/PR and a WR. All three roles in a single game. You know, the speed kills thing?