National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?

[tryfuhl]

I look more at it as far as what they did with what they had/the positions that they drafted at; not so much what they could've done different as far as draft order or whatever.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

A high-impact NFC East draft column - NFC East - ESPN

Usually, I'm not one to publicly harp on what the national media thinks. Admittedly, privately, I can be very critical of poorly constructed opinions. But, I think there's a double standard going on.

Jeremy Maclin was a player both teams were targeting, and the Eagles were able to use information they tracked down about teams, potentially the Giants, trading up to 20 to get Maclin, so they were able to get up to 19.

Here's what I don't understand: either you like the Maclin move if you don't. If you think he was a top ten player, then the Eagles draft looks great. A top ten player and a first round RB on the first day is a great haul indeed -- but then what do you say about the Giants?

If you think Maclin was a top player, then logic dicatates that the Giants lost out at a chance at an elite player at a need position because they weren't willing to give up a third round pick instead of a fourth, essentially, to get up to pick 18 or so. And no matter how you look at it, the Giants ended up missing on the 2nd WR on their board for their 4th or 5th. That's a really big downgrade no matter what position they drafted at. When it's a position with a 40% first round washout rate, that's really, really bad.

And all of that follows from the logic that Maclin is going to be a great player. In reality, I think he was a very overvalued receiver who will be stuck behind much better players in Philly. I have no problem tipping my cap to two teams who appear to have a great haul in the second round, but after you mix up the first round as the Giants, and debatably the Eagles did, your draft doesn't get an A+. Sorry, that's not how it works.

The Redskins were the only team to get an immediate impact player in this draft (well, LeSean McCoy, probably). And I think that's going largely unnoticed because of, well, because of I'm not really sure.

End rant.

Tripp, did you see this part of the story?

Something tells me you've just about had it with draft grades, so let's go in a different direction today. I've spent the last 24 hours on the phone with national draft gurus, college scouting directors and two assistant coaches in an effort to determine which draft class in the Beast will make the most immediate impact.

I avoided talking to NFC East scouts, in part, because it's rare to find a scout who says something like, "Well, we pretty much blew it" four days after the draft. The consensus is that the Eagles scored highest on in our High-Impact rankings. I granted our experts anonymity in exchange for their honesty -- and job security. They were asked to provide a number between 1-10, with 1 representing an "incredibly low impact" and 10 being a "stunningly high impact."

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Tripp, did you see this part of the story?

Yeah, I read through the whole thing, which is why I got that "wow, really?!" complex goin on. But this is hardly at all about the Mosley article. More about the entire media reaction to this draft, defying all logic with regards to the NFC East, which, collectively, didn't even do that well.

I thought we had the best draft by far (and fairly mediocre overall), but the consensus seems to be that the Giants and Eagles can't do anything wrong.

This thread is more shock/knee jerk reaction than anything.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yeah, I read through the whole thing, which is why I got that "wow, really?!" complex goin on. But this is hardly at all about the Mosley article. More about the entire media reaction to this draft, defying all logic with regards to the NFC East, which, collectively, didn't even do that well.

I thought we had the best draft by far (and fairly mediocre overall), but the consensus seems to be that the Giants and Eagles can't do anything wrong.

This thread is more shock/knee jerk reaction than anything.

So true.. If we had made the same deal for Peters the Eagles had made the media would be all over us for mortgaging our future for another team's disgruntled player and overpaying to extend a 28 year old tackle who gave up 11.5 sacks.

I can't believe that more isn't being made about the Giants going into the preseason with a receiving group with a total of 145 receptions from their top 4 returning pass catchers (Smith-57, Hixon-43, Boss-33, Moss-12) and 11 touchdowns from them.

While what matters is what happens on the field it is annoying to be constantly beaten up in the media.

[skins89moss]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So true.. If we had made the same deal for Peters the Eagles had made the media would be all over us for mortgaging our future for another team's disgruntled player and overpaying to extend a 28 year old tackle who gave up 11.5 sacks.

I can't believe that more isn't being made about the Giants going into the preseason with a receiving group with a total of 145 receptions from their top 4 returning pass catchers (Smith-57, Hixon-43, Boss-33, Moss-12) and 11 touchdowns from them.

While what matters is what happens on the field it is annoying to be constantly beaten up in the media.

I was thinking the same thing about Philly signing Jason Peters, if we would have signed him it would have been a bad signing. Any time we sign a free agent it we trying to buy a super bowl. When we start winning games and the division then they can eat their words.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yeah, I read through the whole thing, which is why I got that "wow, really?!" complex goin on. But this is hardly at all about the Mosley article. More about the entire media reaction to this draft, defying all logic with regards to the NFC East, which, collectively, didn't even do that well.

I thought we had the best draft by far (and fairly mediocre overall), but the consensus seems to be that the Giants and Eagles can't do anything wrong.

This thread is more shock/knee jerk reaction than anything.

Ok then, I just wondered if you thought these were Mosley's opinions or understood that he had pooled the opinions of various scouts and coaches (so this article isn't really about what the national media thinks)

[Paintrain]

I'd rather see an overall 'offseason' ranking.. I'm pretty sure it would look like:
1. Eagles
2. Redskins
3. Giants
4. Cowboys

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I'd rather see an overall 'offseason' ranking.. I'm pretty sure it would look like:
1. Eagles
2. Redskins
3. Giants
4. Cowboys

1. Giants
2. Redskins
3. Eagles (only because of draft)
4. Cowboys

The Eagles pretty much dismantled their team early in the offseason; they lost a ton of key players. They were veteran players, but big losses...Dawkins, Sheppard, Greg Lewis, Buckhalter (who is key because Westbrook is so injury prone every year) and a few others. Runyan is about finished, old and just had knee surgery...no other teams wanted him. McNabb is never happy.

They added Jason Peters, a big signing like ours of Dockery. Hobbs replaces Lito Shep. Macklin is an upgrade over Lewis. They had no comparable replacement for Dawkins.

So, the Eagles basically made some replacements for losses with no major upgrades and a hole at the safety position. How is that a successful offseason?

The Giants made huge additions, mainly on defense. They lost one of their 3-headed RB monster, which really shouldn't hurt them. They had some cancer cut out too with the departure (jailing) of Burress.

We made major upgrades and additions too, so our draft was not as important as it would be to a team like the Eagles who were just trying to fill a ton of holes and try to simply get back to where they started before the off-season losses. Haynesworth, Dockery and keeping Hall were huge. The addition of Orakpo will fill a need we've had for years and didn't work with the Jason Taylor signing. We also picked up a potential starting CB in the future without losing one.

Dallas lost a lot of talented players, albeit not the greatest for locker room presence. Horsecollar Williams, Tank Johnson, Terrell Owens, Chris Canty, Pac Man Jones, Anthony Henry, Zach Thomas. They only added Olshansky and Brooking with a few other non-impact players and Jon Kitna, who they should probably play in December. Their draft was a disaster, from trading their higher picks to taking a second kicker to use only on kickoffs and as a tackling dummy...wasting a roster spot.


Sure the Giants' praise is warranted, but I can't understand the credit the Eagles are being given. They merely made some replacements, not really upgrades with the exception of the WR position. They're no better than last season, possibly slightly downgraded.

The Division should finish:

NJ Giants
Skins
...
...
Philthydelphia/Dallass

[skinsfan_nn]

Draft grades don't mean jack. Lets look at a body of work in the NFL (College is over, whole different ballgame) at bare minimum the end of the season before any grades are handed out.

It's a moot point and waste of time to grade any team or the player who's never played one single snap at this level, it's nothing more than a guess. Nothing more.

[GTripp0012]

I'll reiterate that I have no problem with the scouts preferring one draft over another, but I'm starting to think that the qualifications for having a good draft is more who you are than what you did.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'll reiterate that I have no problem with the scouts preferring one draft over another, but I'm starting to think that the qualifications for having a good draft is more who you are than what you did.

Teams prove themselves on the field ,nothing else matters.

[bignell]

i think i've said this before but if you google any of these guys none has ever worked for a pro or college team.they grab the same national storylines and run with it .just lazy in my opinion .as i sit here i wonder how fast it would change if snyder answered these blowhards phone call and yucked it up.it's really sad i live up hear near philly these local guys luagh at mcnabbs joke like they have too, like laughing at your bosses jokes

[SBXVII]

Uhm, have you all not learned it's in vogue to hate the Skins and all they do?

[Schneed10]

I also think we should keep in mind that one Albert Haynesworth will make more impact by himself this season than will any other NFC East team's entire draft.

These scouts need to earn a living, so they analyze and analyze and over-analyze. Doesn't mean we need to get caught up in it.

Our DL will be nasty. Let's see how Brandon Jacobs and Brian Westbrook like running against us this year.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I also think we should keep in mind that one Albert Haynesworth will make more impact by himself this season than will any other NFC East team's entire draft.

These scouts need to earn a living, so they analyze and analyze and over-analyze. Doesn't mean we need to get caught up in it.

Our DL will be nasty. Let's see how Brandon Jacobs and Brian Westbrook like running against us this year.

Agreed, Two major deficiancies we had on defense was DT and DE. AH fills the DT spot and #13 Orakpo fills the DE spot as depth. This alone will create sacks and horribly thrown balls by QB creating interceptions by Hall and Rogers.

Offensively we get back Jansen, and Heyer healthy and picked up Williams who I honestly think Buges will mold a monster. If he gets down to the 360 the team wants him at I see him as the RT if he simply gets close to that weight why not move him to Guard or try him at Center. Our WR's will be in better shape and know more of the offense. We have an MVP/SB RB in Mason. lol. Just kidding ....had to get your Goat. lol. No pun intended.

We might not have had a guzillion picks to make the pundits say the Skins had the best draft but I think the team has done an admiral job at getting depth or starting quality players.


Edit: I didn't mean to say Orakpo is only depth. He fills a spot so we have enough players not to worry about the position. I think he starts this season.