Obama Motors

[GTripp0012]

When the Government starts taking over industry just for the hell of it, then it will be time to fear the Government. But for corporations that have already lost more than 80% of their shareholder's equity since 2000, does it really even matter? It's not like the Government is stealing from the private sector. The wealth has already been lost.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

When the Government starts taking over industry just for the hell of it, then it will be time to fear the Government. But for corporations that have already lost more than 80% of their shareholder's equity since 2000, does it really even matter? It's not like the Government is stealing from the private sector. The wealth has already been lost.

It does when the taxpayer is fleeced to give that said company bail-out money.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

It does when the taxpayer is fleeced to give that said company bail-out money.

To the tune of 30 billion $.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

It does when the taxpayer is fleeced to give that said company bail-out money.

Well, the corporate bail out was a separate issue entirely. That was our government doing what any government would have done in the same situation. The taxpayers don't have an immediate voice in a representative democracy, so they are the easiest target to fleece, as you say.

The bailout, in my opinion, was neither good nor bad. It was stealing from Peter to give to Paul. Taxpayers were screwed either way. But by intervening, the bureaucrats could save their own careers, so the choice was easy.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, the corporate bail out was a separate issue entirely. That was our government doing what any government would have done in the same situation. The taxpayers don't have an immediate voice in a representative democracy, so they are the easiest target to fleece, as you say.

The bailout, in my opinion, was neither good nor bad. It was stealing from Peter to give to Paul. Taxpayers were screwed either way. But by intervening, the bureaucrats could save their own careers, so the choice was easy.

Had they not bailed out Chrystler or GM the public would've paid nothing. They still had the option of filling bankruptcy to restructure. Delta did that and they're still flying. Our government shouldn't be acting like any other government. If everyone jumped off a bridge would you do it too?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Had they not bailed out Chrystler or GM the public would've paid nothing. They still had the option of filling bankruptcy to restructure. Delta did that and they're still flying. Our government shouldn't be acting like any other government. If everyone jumped off a bridge would you do it too?

Delta didn't have to worry about losing a majority of it's market share to foreign competition. In that case, a bailout would have been overkill.

If they hadn't bailed out GM, the loss of labor in the auto industries and the industries that were dependent on the auto industry in the form of unemployment taxes. Taxpayers would have been screwed anyway. Right now, there isn't sufficient economic growth in other industries to offset the exponential loss of jobs. Maybe in another place, another time, it would have been beneficial to force the auto industries to head into a more traditional bankruptcy process, but considering that demand for automobiles isn't going anywhere in the immediate future, we'd just be directly killing our GDP by not doing so. So, yeah, maybe the actual path we are going to take isn't much better, but it's certainly not worse, at least in the short term.

Where this has the potential to be worse is if the temporary economic stimulus solutions become permanent (think New Deal). But that's a different issue entirely. And even though Obama's plans seem to take that into effect, it's probably going to be up to his successor to actually see that part through. The long term effects of this bail-out are likely not in his control.

[Miller101]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Had they not bailed out Chrystler or GM the public would've paid nothing. They still had the option of filling bankruptcy to restructure. Delta did that and they're still flying. Our government shouldn't be acting like any other government. If everyone jumped off a bridge would you do it too?

Just for the record, the government did bail out the airlines. In the week following 9/11 some airlines lost ALOT of money and the government stepped in and hooked them up. I don't know if the airlines ever paid them back or not. With the way Bush ran things they probably didn't.

The government bailed out everyone. The only company that the left behind was the porn industry! Can you believe that? They bail out all the rich pricks, but they leave our porn stars alone to die.........................Geez, what is our country coming too!

[over the mountain]

"WORK HARDER, millions on welfare depend on you!"

go skins

[saden1]

Comrades, we must work together to realize the dream of a New America. We must work and live as one.

[MTK]

Nothing is being forced upon anyone. There may be an incentive to buy but you still have the power of choice. Let's not call it something it's not.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Nothing is being forced upon anyone. There may be an incentive to buy but you still have the power of choice. Let's not call it something it's not.

What about tomorrow?

[BleedBurgundy]

um, anybody else think that the reason *most* europeans drive those "piece of shit" cars is out of necessity. High price of fuel, over congestion and limits on space make these cars necessary. Where exactly do you think we're headed, back to 1965 and cheap gas? And for those really wanting to bitch about the perceived lack of performance in electric cars, check out the numbers and 0-60 times compared to internal combustion.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

um, anybody else think that the reason *most* europeans drive those "piece of shit" cars is out of necessity. High price of fuel, over congestion and limits on space make these cars necessary. Where exactly do you think we're headed, back to 1965 and cheap gas? And for those really wanting to bitch about the perceived lack of performance in electrical cars, check out the numbers and 0-60 times compared to internal combustion.

Here Here

[steveo395]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

um, anybody else think that the reason *most* europeans drive those "piece of shit" cars is out of necessity. High price of fuel, over congestion and limits on space make these cars necessary. Where exactly do you think we're headed, back to 1965 and cheap gas? And for those really wanting to bitch about the perceived lack of performance in electric cars, check out the numbers and 0-60 times compared to internal combustion.

Yes, Europeans drive those cars out of necessity. We have a lot more space and cheaper fuel, so Americans drive bigger cars. We are not Europe, I don't know why everyone wants to do things that Europe is doing. This country was founded to get away from Europe.

And yes, we could have cheap gas again if the government didn't stop us from drilling our own oil and building new refineries.

I know electric cars have good performance. Electric motors deliver instant torque and can rev ridiculously high. Electric cars are also more expensive though and take too long to charge, but their problems are being worked on. I have nothing against electric cars. If there is a market for them, they should be built.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by steveo395

Yes, Europeans drive those cars out of necessity. We have a lot more space and cheaper fuel, so Americans drive bigger cars. We are not Europe, I don't know why everyone wants to do things that Europe is doing. This country was founded to get away from Europe.

And yes, we could have cheap gas again if the government didn't stop us from drilling our own oil and building new refineries.

I know electric cars have good performance. Electric motors deliver instant torque and can rev ridiculously high. Electric cars are also more expensive though and take too long to charge, but their problems are being worked on. I have nothing against electric cars. If there is a market for them, they should be built.

So we should replace our current standard of fuel (gasoline) that we are currently running into a shortage problem on, with a standard of fuel (electricity) that we are currently having a shortage problem on??

Don't get me wrong, I like what we are doing with electric cars, but if we all switch to electric cars, where is that power going to come from. We already have power diverted from Canada to meet the demands, and our demands on electricity are FAR greater than those of fossil fuels.