What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I'll add bad personnel groupings. How have we gone 2 games and not once used Kelly, Thomas, Mitchell, Cooley & Davis as a RZ package? When we trot 3 TE out there that gives away that we're going to run the ball.

Well, we wouldn't want to go to just the shotgun... that would let them know we intended to pass. <sarcasm>

Just to be clear -I agree with your sentiment.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Bad play calling, bad execution. There's no simple answer.

Exactly.

I felt like, despite average play calling, we still should be able to execute one of the average calls effectively enough to score.

First, we dropped two probable scores. That's a game changer right there. We're not having the same conversations if even one of those balls is caught. Maybe a little grumbling but not the onslaught of negativity.

Second, only the Portis option was what I consider a bad play call. It was a really low percentage play to begin with so it should never have been called. The other plays were "top of list" plays. Zorn's post game conference gave a small window into their thinking. He commented that the 4th and 1 play at the goal line was their #1 goal line run. Now ignoring the fact that they actually had that ridiculous play as their #1 goal line run you can tell they simply followed script. They take a gander at the list of plays and pick one near the top. What concerns me is that not all goal line situations are the same. So you can't just call your #1 play. You have to consider what the defense has been doing, what you have been doing, how much yardage you need, etc... To me the #1 run there isn't the right call even though it is your default #1 run play on your list. You need 18 inches you go up the gut or simply sneak it. You made that list in your office two days ago. Forget it. It should only be a starting point.

Zorn needs to get more in tune to the game and more reactive to what is happening rather than trying to simply hit the high notes on a checklist of "good plays". Scarp all the pre-game theoretical play calls and figure what is going to work in the situation that is playing out in front of you.

[Lotus]

The red zone offense is very problematic. We should have put 28 on the board against the Lambs.

That said, if red zone offense is our biggest problem, there is reason for optimism. This situation beats the heck out of never getting to the red zone.

[hail_2_da_skins]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Exactly.

I felt like, despite average play calling, we still should be able to execute one of the average calls effectively enough to score.

First, we dropped two probable scores. That's a game changer right there. We're not having the same conversations if even one of those balls is caught. Maybe a little grumbling but not the onslaught of negativity.

Second, only the Portis option was what I consider a bad play call. It was a really low percentage play to begin with so it should never have been called. The other plays were "top of list" plays. Zorn's post game conference gave a small window into their thinking. He commented that the 4th and 1 play at the goal line was their #1 goal line run. Now ignoring the fact that they actually had that ridiculous play as their #1 goal line run you can tell they simply followed script. They take a gander at the list of plays and pick one near the top. What concerns me is that not all goal line situations are the same. So you can't just call your #1 play. You have to consider what the defense has been doing, what you have been doing, how much yardage you need, etc... To me the #1 run there isn't the right call even though it is your default #1 run play on your list. You need 18 inches you go up the gut or simply sneak it. You made that list in your office two days ago. Forget it. It should only be a starting point.

Zorn needs to get more in tune to the game and more reactive to what is happening rather than trying to simply hit the high notes on a checklist of "good plays". Scarp all the pre-game theoretical play calls and figure what is going to work in the situation that is playing out in front of you.

Bam! You hit the nail right on the head!

Zorn needs to be more in tune with the game situation.

You do not call a halfback option pass on 3rd and 8 yards to go. No defense in it's right mind is looking for a run on 3rd and 8. If you are running the ball well, that play works on first down, maybe second down but not third down when you have to convert. That was a bad call, I don't care what Zorn says.

The situation is 4th and less than a yard. To me, the smart call is run a quick running play. Do not give the defense an opportunity for penetration. Any slow developing play, has a potential for negative yards, not advisable in this situation. You have a 6' 5" 230 lb quarterback, how about a quarterback sneak, that should get a 1/2 yard.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by hail_2_da_skins

Bam! You hit the nail right on the head!

Zorn needs to be more in tune with the game situation.

You do not call a halfback option pass on 3rd and 8 yards to go. No defense in it's right mind is looking for a run on 3rd and 8. If you are running the ball well, that play works on first down, maybe second down but not third down when you have to convert. That was a bad call, I don't care what Zorn says.

The situation is 4th and less than a yard. To me, the smart call is run a quick running play. Do not give the defense an opportunity for penetration. Any slow developing play, has a potential for negative yards, not advisable in this situation. You have a 6' 5" 230 lb quarterback, how about a quarterback sneak, that should get a 1/2 yard.

My sentiments exactly....Sure you're not a football player on this team, sounds like players talking among themselves.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Bad play calling, bad execution. There's no simple answer.

I can't help but think that there may be a simple answer. That's probably because I experienced the glory days of the Hogs and John Riggins.

I think what we need is a true power runner for goal line situations. If the opposing defense needs to sell out to stop the run, it can't help but open up other plays for the offense. In the glory days, if Riggins and the Hogs didn't run over the defense then Joey T. would kill them on a bootleg.

We all know that we're not going to get a dominant OL overnight, but shouldn't we leave no stone unturned to acquire a true power runner ASAP? That would have to help. Please don't ask me where to find that power runner; that's Vinny's job. I don't care where or how he does it - I just think he needs to get it done, now.

True power running and JC running bootlegs - that's my thinking. I think JC would do a darn good job running a bootleg with a run or pass option.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Bad play calling, bad execution. There's no simple answer.

The 3rd down call when Zorn opted for an option pass with Portis throwing, it was interesting to note Sonny Jurgensens' take. Sonny said he would have either called an audible, or called time-out. Zorn's reply was, he would have taken him out of the game too. Sorry Sonny.......

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Jim Zorn.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Jim Zorn.

I think the point of this thread is to be a little more detailed than that.

[Green1]

Jim Zorn. HB pass in the red zone! Please keep it basic run, run, run, from DIFFERENT FORMATIONS then playaction pass. Keep it simple Joe Gibbs style.

[Green1]

Redskins are 19th in total offense right in front of the Bears. Skins are 18th in the run and 18th in the pass. Jim Zorn needs to figure if he wants to be a running team or a passing team. I suggest Run that how we were 6-2 last running. Running less that 30 times a game is not going to get it.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Green1

Redskins are 19th in total offense right in front of the Bears. Skins are 18th in the run and 18th in the pass. Jim Zorn needs to figure if he wants to be a running team or a passing team. I suggest Run that how we were 6-2 last running. Running less that 30 times a game is not going to get it.

We haven't been able to consistently run the ball all pre-season or in the first two games.

[roth74va]

Originally Posted by Green1

Redskins are 19th in total offense right in front of the Bears. Skins are 18th in the run and 18th in the pass. Jim Zorn needs to figure if he wants to be a running team or a passing team. I suggest Run that how we were 6-2 last running. Running less that 30 times a game is not going to get it.

I respectfully disagree, we are built to be a passing team right now. The O-line opened 1 run for CP against the Giants, but did much better against a pathetic Rams team. If we wanted to run the ball, we draft 3 lineman in the 2nd round two years ago. Where is this dynamic, high-scoring offense they talked about when Zorn was hired? Its a passing league, running the ball and good defense isnt gonna cut it, not if we want to be a real contender.

[Trample the Elderly]

Is this a rhetorical question? We can't get TDs. This isn't rocket science. For all of these fancy shmancy schemes and what not, at the end of the day a guy runs or catches a ball in the end zone.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Is this a rhetorical question? We can't get TDs. This isn't rocket science. For all of these fancy shmancy schemes and what not, at the end of the day a guy runs or catches a ball in the end zone.

Yes but "why isn't it happening" is the point of the thread.