US Infects Guatemalans With Syphilis During 1940s Experiments

[firstdown]

Come on we are talking about letting prisoners bang prostitutes to see what happens. I'm guessing we had a line around the jail. I fell sorry fo the mental patients because it sounds like they got injected and did not get the chance to bang the prostitutes.

[Hog1]

You Prankster....always ready for a party!

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Come on we are talking about letting prisoners bang prostitutes to see what happens. I'm guessing we had a line around the jail. I fell sorry fo the mental patients because it sounds like they got injected and did not get the chance to bang the prostitutes.

And this is why the world hates us...facepalm

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

It was horrible and wrong, but, with that said: Communism, National Socialism, Western European Liberal Democracy.

Feel free to rank them from best to worst in protecting individual rights and "doing good" in the world.

Look, we have many blotches in our past. Unlike many other societies, we are able to say "Oops - we screwed up". Sometimes it takes a while and there may be some hand ringing, but, ultimately, we are okay with fessing up to our imperfections, recognizing them as imperfections and trying to prevent them from happening again. Many in Japan, for example, are in denial about its "Rape of Nanking" (most acknowledge it).

We aren't perfect. At least we admit it.

Yeah but acknowledging doesn't make it ok.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by hooskins

And this is why the world hates us...facepalm

No. The world hates us b/c we preach an ideal (respect for individual human rights and supremacy of the individual over the State) but, as a practical matter, fail to live up to this utopian ideal by our use of the necessary Real Politik that preserves the society preaching these ideals.

In other words, the rest of the world latches onto our flaws in order to justify the envy based hatred of our success. Simply put, we are an easy target b/c we are not (shockers) perfect, yet we preach and, as a society, assert an idealic goal.

It's easy to hate the Patriots.

[htownskinfan]

Im not shocked or surprised by this revelation,hell I think you'd be naive to think the government is still not doing something else like this somewhere

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Yeah but acknowledging doesn't make it ok.

Of course not. Are any mainstream Americans asserting this was acceptable behavior?

We (collectively as a society) have made mistakes. Please, demonstrate any other society - that had the equivalent hegemony we have do today - that openly admitted the error of its past actions. I can't think of any (Disclaimer: I am wayyyyyyyyyyy drunk right now).

We are human. We make mistakes - both individually and corporately. Rather than attempting to justify these mistakes as a society (recognizing that the firstdown outliers exist in any large grouping of humanity), we (the citizens of the US) generally acknowledge our "mistakes" and strive to ensure that they do not happen again (haven't seen any Muslim internment camps lately a la' the Japanese camps of WWII). What more can you ask of a group of people? Perfection in all actions and decisions? Idiocy. Perfection is simply beyond our corporate ken. ("For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God": Romans, 3:23)

If you expect perfect harmony between the goals of a society and its actual actions, you are doomed to naysaying and bitterness. It is always good and right to seek and work for such harmony, but the expectation of such is foolish.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

Im not shocked or surprised by this revelation,hell I think you'd be naive to think the government is still not doing something else like this somewhere

Of course we are. Somewhere w/in the government/military, someone focused on a specific goal - that is broadly beneficial to the rest of us - is saying "Hey! This is a great way to accomplish the broad goal". In doing so, they, and others in power, fail to see the base wrongness of their actions or, if seeing the wrongness, justify the evil means as neccessary to satisfy an altruistic end.

Again, we are not perfect.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by saden1

Only because you sell America short.

Outside of our participation in WWI, WWII and the Korean War, please show me where we rank on the list of 20th Century atrocities.

In a way, it's rather disheartening to realize that we can't smugly blame the brutality of the century on the Communists, or the imperialists, or the Moslem fundamentalists, or the godless. Every major category of human has done it's share to boost the body count, so replacing, say, Moslem rulers with Christian rulers, or white rulers with black rulers, is not going to change it at all.

Twentieth Century Atlas - Top Ranked Atrocities

Yet, with that said, there is nothing on the list to show a major bloodletting caused by the US.

Comparisons of this despicable action to the Nazis devalues the evil caused by the dehumanization of "non-aryans" by German National Socialists and the concommit genocidal and meglomaniacal killings. The "ideal" of the Nazis was a world dominated by the Master Race; the "ideal" of the US, however, is a world where individual rights are respected and basic human rights are assured (Read the preamble and the Bill of Rights).

Fortunately, the Nazis failed in accomplishing their goal. Unfortunately, due to human imperfection, the US's goal is impossible to accomplish. In our world, utopian societies of any significant size do not, can not and will not ever exist.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Outside of our participation in WWI, WWII and the Korean War, please show me where we rank on the list of 20th Century atrocities.




Twentieth Century Atlas - Top Ranked Atrocities

Yet, with that said, there is nothing on the list to show a major bloodletting caused by the US.

Comparisons of this despicable action to the Nazis devalues the evil caused by the dehumanization of "non-aryans" by German National Socialists and the concommit genocidal and meglomaniacal killings. The "ideal" of the Nazis was a world dominated by the Master Race; the "ideal" of the US, however, is a world where individual rights are respected and basic human rights are assured (Read the preamble and the Bill of Rights).

Fortunately, the Nazis failed in accomplishing their goal. Unfortunately, due to human imperfection, the US's goal is impossible to accomplish. In our world, utopian societies of any significant size do not, can not and will not ever exist.

Great posts Joe. Unfortunately you won't change people's minds. Those who love to bash America choose to ignore the truth, that despite our past shortcomings (which have almost all been corrected over time) we are the greatest force for individual freedom and good the world has ever seen.

Another beauty of this country.....it's citizens are free to leave any time they like.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by saden1

Only because you sell America short.

For all its many faults at least the U.S. has checks and balances in place, unlike most of the World.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by saden1

Are you guys really surprised or shocked by the United State's capability and willingness to do something like this?

This pretty much echos my sentiment. I don't put anything past our government.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Outside of our participation in WWI, WWII and the Korean War, please show me where we rank on the list of 20th Century atrocities.




Twentieth Century Atlas - Top Ranked Atrocities

Yet, with that said, there is nothing on the list to show a major bloodletting caused by the US.

Comparisons of this despicable action to the Nazis devalues the evil caused by the dehumanization of "non-aryans" by German National Socialists and the concommit genocidal and meglomaniacal killings. The "ideal" of the Nazis was a world dominated by the Master Race; the "ideal" of the US, however, is a world where individual rights are respected and basic human rights are assured (Read the preamble and the Bill of Rights).

Fortunately, the Nazis failed in accomplishing their goal. Unfortunately, due to human imperfection, the US's goal is impossible to accomplish. In our world, utopian societies of any significant size do not, can not and will not ever exist.

I suppose the deaths of Native Americans, the African Salves and the Chines rail road worker don't count? America was born out of sin, into sin and and will die in sin. I am quite tired of people making indirect apologies for it and using deflection. America doesn't need defending nor does it deserve defending.


The American: Look, we're not nearly as evil and we are aware of our evils.
The Canadian: Everyone is aware of their evil.
The Nazi: Exactly. At the end of the day the dead are still dead.
The Maoist: General Mao said "Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy."
The American: Huh?
The Nazi: I hate communism.
The American: Back to what I was saying. I think it matters how you kill people. The way you Nazis killed the Jews was cold blooded.
The Nazi: It was. I would have done it more mercifully.
The Maoist: In time of difficulties, we must not lose sight of our achievements.
The Nazi: What difficulties?
The American: Never mind him.
The Maoist: It's another quote from the great General Mao.
The Maoist: The atom bomb is a paper tiger which the United States reactionaries use to scare people. It looks terrible, but in fact it isn't.
The American: Another Mao quote?
The Maoist: Uh-huh.
The Canadian: I wonder what Mao would say if they dropped it on his head.
The Maoist: It's always darkest before it's totally black.
The American: I am sorry but America is nothing like these other evil evildoers and will always be special.
The Canadian: You're not special. Don't forget that low hanging fruit and your blankets. We have a train to catch.

[firstdown]

If the rest of the world hates us then why the hell won't they stop coming here? Like Saden would say. I guess we need to try harder.

[Alvin Walton]

Originally Posted by firstdown

If the rest of the world hates us then why the hell won't they stop coming here? Like Saden would say. I guess we need to try harder.

For the same reason the poor hate the rich and powerful.
I'm fine with that.
Besides thats just the theme song libs and treehuggers came up with during the Bush administration. Kinda like the no blood for oil bullshit.