Snyder Camp Upset!!

[Longtimefan]

[quote=skinsguy;781824]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

And, what has Snyder done since then? Gotten rid of Vinny Cerrato, hired a football guy as GM (Bruce Allen), hired a Super Bowl winning Coach in Mike Shanahan, and has let them do whatever they think they can do to turn the team around. Hey, I'm not necessarily taking up for the guy, I'm just saying that I think fans needs to step back and look at everything, not just the wrong.

Like other business "gurus," Snyder operates the Redskins under the mistaken assumption that success is something that can be bought. As far as I can tell, the Snyder Doctrine is some bizarre concoction of liberal amounts of reactionary decision-making, a strong concentration on the short term, and a heavy supply of poorly structured incentives. His favorite answer to solving complex problems is simply to throw more money at them.

Investors who have been around the block once or twice should start to see a few problems developing here.

To me, Dan Snyder is precisely the type of guy Benjamin Graham had in mind when he said "Wall Street people learn nothing and forget everything."

[Son Of Man]

I know that I am in the minority, but I like Dan Snyder sand hopes he owns the team for decades to come. I honestly believe that, despite his littany of mistakes, his intentions are in the right place and he will facillitate bringing a couple of Lombardi trophies to the B&G.

BTW- I would pressure the paper to fire the guy too. What's the use of being wealthy if you don't flex your power sometimes?

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

You know, I'd like to believe that, but something tells me whoever he loses in regards to season ticket-holders would be replaced by others wanting season tickets. Even if half of those fans don't show up (because of a losing season) I'm sure he's still making his green.

The only way to run Snyder out of town would be doing what this article and what the fans (wearing the anti-Dan shirts) are doing in order to hurt his reputation. But apparently it hasn't had much affect on the guy. So, to me, it's pretty much just futile attempts to get him to sell the team. I just think none of that stuff is going to work.

The article makes what I think is a valid point about this "waiting list" for season tickets. The whole thing is a marketing sham. There was a list for years, I really don't believe there's much of one now. I know that there's a big difference between the high end boxes & avg. seats. Supposedly they will concede that boxes are easy to get, if you have $.

But the marketing they've been doing for tickets doesn't look it's simply aimed at selling boxes, it's to the avg. fan. I entered a free ticket drawing online & the next day got a call from a friendly woman from redskins ticket office saying that seats were available.

Your logic I think is the same logic that DS has relied upon; that there is always someone to fill the seats. Well in this economy, that hasn't been the case. In one case on monday night we saw that there were plenty of people filling the seats, just so happened that they were in black & gold.

When I look at Snyder's ownership tenure, from a biz standpoint I see a product that is living off it's brand name, not its substance. At some point consumers associate the brand name negatively, that's what's been happening the last few years. I know that winning will change a lot, but Snyder's problem is that he has exhausted all his political capital w/the fan base to the extent that he now HAS to win.

[Monkeydad]

[quote=skinsguy;781824]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

And, what has Snyder done since then? Gotten rid of Vinny Cerrato, hired a football guy as GM (Bruce Allen), hired a Super Bowl winning Coach in Mike Shanahan, and has let them do whatever they think they can do to turn the team around. Hey, I'm not necessarily taking up for the guy, I'm just saying that I think fans needs to step back and look at everything, not just the wrong.

Well said.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

I know that I am in the minority, but I like Dan Snyder sand hopes he owns the team for decades to come. I honestly believe that, despite his littany of mistakes, his intentions are in the right place and he will facillitate bringing a couple of Lombardi trophies to the B&G.

BTW- I would pressure the paper to fire the guy too. What's the use of being wealthy if you don't flex your power sometimes?

LOL. That's awesome!

[SmootSmack]

I'll just re-link what I said in the other thread this past fall about this article here.

http://www.thewarpath.net/760520-post45.html

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'll just re-link what I said in the other thread this past fall about this article here.

http://www.thewarpath.net/760520-post45.html

SS, you correctly point out some of what I think are smaller things the article includes, e.g. B Mitch, poking fun at L. Michael. I think those things in the article are kind of piling on and nitpicky, they discredit the more substantive things the writer lists.

DS deserves credit for doing any no. of good things, I'm not saying he hasn't. It's also good for business to do some of those things. I stood up for him for a long time & thought people were unjustifiably hard on him. But he's got a track record now & a history of bad moves & poor judgement. He has repeated the "I've learned" mantra every preseason.

I really believe his time is running short to turn things around, we've seen the public grow increasingly disenchanted. The last few years were really a circus, and that's really disconcerting since Gibbs left the team in better shape than it was when he got there. I know getting rid of Vinny was step 1, and I'm confident in Allen & MS, but I wish I could say I was truly confident that moving forward they will be able to mold the team w/out DS adversely affecting their ability to do so.

[Defensewins]

The fact that he reacted at all to this article shows he has not changed completely.
He has changed for the better though when it comes to the team and letting Shanahan/Allen run the team personnel wise. But the petulant, spoiled, self entitled man/child is still there....just hiding.

[skinsguy]

[quote=Longtimefan;781828]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Like other business "gurus," Snyder operates the Redskins under the mistaken assumption that success is something that can be bought. As far as I can tell, the Snyder Doctrine is some bizarre concoction of liberal amounts of reactionary decision-making, a strong concentration on the short term, and a heavy supply of poorly structured incentives. His favorite answer to solving complex problems is simply to throw more money at them.

Investors who have been around the block once or twice should start to see a few problems developing here.

To me, Dan Snyder is precisely the type of guy Benjamin Graham had in mind when he said "Wall Street people learn nothing and forget everything."

Back in the first few years of his tenure, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. But, I'm not so sure that is the case. The thing you have to know for sure is, from a purely business point of view, is Daniel Snyder losing money? If the answer is yes, then his investors might be getting worried. If the answer is no, then what does it matter in regards to the product? What does it matter if he's making money solely based on the name? He's making money, so his business is thriving. Now, from the football standpoint, he's been a failure. But let's take a look at what he's tried to do:


He fired a general manager who had been with the team (not as the general manager mind you) since the late 70's and helped build the 1991 Super Bowl team. Brought in Vinny Cerrato. He tried to buy a Championship in 2000, bringing in all of these over-the-hill big name stars and got nowhere with that. He brought in a hard-nosed coach who started off 0-5, but ended at 8-8 and fired him after one season. Brought in a college coach who obviously was not willing to put in the hours needed to be successful in the NFL.

OK, second half of his tenure: Brought back Joe Gibbs, beloved coach of the glory years who had some success during his four years here. Fired Vinny Cerrato - who probably should be blamed for making Zorn head coach, but someone the fans disliked as a "GM". Hired Bruce Allen - his family has a legacy in Washington, which led to hiring a two time Super Bowl winning coach with Mike Shanahan.

From there, I see a man who at least on paper looks as if he's turned the corner and trying to be smarter with what is most important with an NFL franchise, and that's winning football games and championships. Remains to be seen if this works, but I can't fault the guy on too much since Gibbs II.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

SS, you correctly point out some of what I think are smaller things the article includes, e.g. B Mitch, poking fun at L. Michael. I think those things in the article are kind of piling on and nitpicky, they discredit the more substantive things the writer lists.

DS deserves credit for doing any no. of good things, I'm not saying he hasn't. It's also good for business to do some of those things. I stood up for him for a long time & thought people were unjustifiably hard on him. But he's got a track record now & a history of bad moves & poor judgement. He has repeated the "I've learned" mantra every preseason.

I really believe his time is running short to turn things around, we've seen the public grow increasingly disenchanted. The last few years were really a circus, and that's really disconcerting since Gibbs left the team in better shape than it was when he got there. I know getting rid of Vinny was step 1, and I'm confident in Allen & MS, but I wish I could say I was truly confident that moving forward they will be able to mold the team w/out DS adversely affecting their ability to do so.

Yeah, well my point is the public grows increasingly disenchanted in large part because they lump in many things that aren't true or misleading. Guy's not flawless by any means, but he might get a bit more slack if much of the bogus info wasn't piled on repeatedly....or maybe it just wouldn't matter because all people want is a winning team.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

The fact that he reacted at all to this article shows he has not changed completely.
He has changed for the better though when it comes to the team and letting Shanahan/Allen run the team personnel wise. But the petulant, spoiled, self entitled man/child is still there....just hiding.

He's never been known as the greatest when it comes to public speaking. Blessed with a concealing demeanor, it's plain to understand why he's so easily misunderstood, and not so fondly embraced by all of the Redskin community. It becomes a strain to sort out a difference between what he says, and what he does.

Dan Snyder says Washington Redskins are “the fans’ team” | bettor.com

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

The article makes what I think is a valid point about this "waiting list" for season tickets. The whole thing is a marketing sham. There was a list for years, I really don't believe there's much of one now. I know that there's a big difference between the high end boxes & avg. seats. Supposedly they will concede that boxes are easy to get, if you have $.

But the marketing they've been doing for tickets doesn't look it's simply aimed at selling boxes, it's to the avg. fan. I entered a free ticket drawing online & the next day got a call from a friendly woman from redskins ticket office saying that seats were available.

Your logic I think is the same logic that DS has relied upon; that there is always someone to fill the seats. Well in this economy, that hasn't been the case. In one case on monday night we saw that there were plenty of people filling the seats, just so happened that they were in black & gold.

When I look at Snyder's ownership tenure, from a biz standpoint I see a product that is living off it's brand name, not its substance. At some point consumers associate the brand name negatively, that's what's been happening the last few years. I know that winning will change a lot, but Snyder's problem is that he has exhausted all his political capital w/the fan base to the extent that he now HAS to win.

Interesting post, and certainly one that I don't completely disagree on. I do think Snyder is making a living off of the name, because it is obviously still making money. The team is located near an area where the average income is far greater than what it would be if the team was located in Southern VA. But you know, this team has been losing, more than winning, on a consistent basis since 1993, yet the team is still very popular and still considered one of the top storied franchises in the league.

Now, as far as marketing, I do find it interesting that the tickets are supposedly sold out, but yet I have been getting calls about tickets and stuff mailed to me. The only way I would ever buy season tickets is if A) I could afford to do so and the seats were decent, and B) I knew that I could easily sell a game or two and recoup my loss. But that's just me saying this, because I don't make six figures a year or even close to it.

But one other thing I would say....winning changes everything! Cowboys fans don't like Jerry Jones, but they can really care less how he runs the team so as long as the team is winning. I would say the same about the Redskins.

[Dirtbag59]

This reaction by Snyder scares me. Not just because he's acting as a tyrant but mainly because it seems like he's getting stir crazy and if Allen/Shanahan fails he could use it as an in to get involved in football operations again.

[SmootSmack]

This sort of reminds me of last year when that bogus story circulated about Snyder ordering some million dollar alligator desks, or something like that.

I'm sure he gets frustrated with the repeated misinformation that's put out there. Who wouldn't? Unfortunately, it comes with the territory. He's better off just ignoring it. I mean if the worst someone can say about you is you spend too much on your team, what's the huge deal. He didn't, as I recall, make any defamatory statements toward Snyder's wife or kids. Had he done that, yeah sue him and his offspring for everything they've got and hope to one day have.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

This reaction by Snyder scares me. Not just because he's acting as a tyrant but mainly because it seems like he's getting stir crazy and if Allen/Shanahan fails he could use it as an in to get involved in football operations again.

Allen/Shanahan = the litmus test.