Surtain: Given permission to seek trade

SKINSnCANES · 02-02-2005, 01:47 PM

everyoen agrees to pay smoot fair market value, except smoot. thats where the problem lies

manicd · 02-02-2005, 02:00 PM

So many times on this board, people were quick to point out things about our corner backs getting burned because we don't, and didn't have a pass rush for some time(this is mainly in regard to Champ getting toasted on occassion). Now look at the Dolphins. They are, and have been a pretty damn good defense with a lot of studs all over defense. Does Surtain look as good as he did in Miami as he would with a team where he is left out there all day. I just think the talent level in football is so close, that a solid group of players makes a lot of the guys look like probowlers(Eagles for one, these guys do nothing on other teams when they leave). In other words, lets try to keep what we have, and stop paying too much for a couple guys and find we can't keep our CORE guys.

TheMalcolmConnection · 02-02-2005, 02:06 PM

Yup, I just wish both sides could find some kind of middle ground. Anyone know who Smoot's agent is?

Defensewins · 02-02-2005, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

Why would we ever sign Surtain, who's going to cost a ton of money, when we could sign a younger guy who's loved by the city (Smoot)? We're not going to sign/trade for this guy....

For two reasons:

1) Surtain is better than Smoot

2) Smoot is asking for top $. Smoot is not deserving of top CB money, Surtain is.

I agree Surtain would be a luxory we probably do not need, given our other needs. But I am against giving Smoot top 5 CB money. You guys may really love him, but there are other great CB's.

MTK · 02-02-2005, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defensewins

For two reasons:

1) Surtain is better than Smoot

2) Smoot is asking for top $. Smoot is not deserving of top CB money, Surtain is.

I agree Surtain would be a luxory we probably do not need, given our other needs. But I am against giving Smoot top 5 CB money. You guys may really love him, but there are other great CB's.

agreed, agreed, agreed

TheMalcolmConnection · 02-02-2005, 04:06 PM

I definitely agree there are better CBs, but the cost to bring them here is what we are trying to avoid. Smoot definitely doesn't deserve top CB money, and if he won't accept the deal the Redskins are trying to give him, I don't think another team will want to pay him that cash either, especially with Surtain on the market.

SKINSnCANES · 02-02-2005, 04:10 PM

Smoot has improved but I dont think he is a top corner. He makes a lot of mental mistakes still. Surtain is a great corner and is better. Smoot is a 'core guy' but part of what gibbs wants in a core guy is that he doesnt ask to be overpaid, and makes sacrifices to play on our team. Its hard for us to not overpay since as someone pointed out, we arent exactly competing as of late. but Gibbs is trying to change that.

TheMalcolmConnection · 02-02-2005, 04:12 PM

As I said before, I wish someone would just suck it up and do something about it, Smoot more than the Redskins. If the Redskins bow to his demands then any other Joe Schmoe on the team that is overarchieving will ask to be paid more than their value.

Hail to the Redskins · 02-02-2005, 04:14 PM

OK, just to interject some sense into the Surtain talk...

There is NO WAY the Dolphins would take Gardner for Surtain... even if you threw in a 4th round pick. It would take Gardner and our NUMBER 1 PICK... or a franchise and trade of Smoot (a la Chump Bailey) AND Gardner to the even ENTICE the Dolphins into giving up Surtain.

Surtain is DEFINITELY worth a look for us. If Smoot is demanding the same salary as Surtain... you HAVE to go Surtain. He is bigger, plays tougher, and has the most (BY FAR) INTs in the NFL the past 3 years.

Personally, I'd TRY to do it. If nothing else, it could drive the asking price for Gardner for teams like the Bucs who are interested.

TheMalcolmConnection · 02-02-2005, 04:15 PM

Hmmm... what about packaging Gardner and Smoot together if that kind of situation arose?

SmootSmack · 02-02-2005, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKINSnCANES

Smoot has improved but I dont think he is a top corner. He makes a lot of mental mistakes still. Surtain is a great corner and is better. Smoot is a 'core guy' but part of what gibbs wants in a core guy is that he doesnt ask to be overpaid, and makes sacrifices to play on our team. Its hard for us to not overpay since as someone pointed out, we arent exactly competing as of late. but Gibbs is trying to change that.

Don't all players essentially ask to be overpaid and then hope that the final deal is at their market worth. If you think you're worth $12 million for example, chances are you're going to start off by asking for $14 million. It doesn't seem like Surtain is making sacrifices to be on the Dolphins so in that sense he's no more/less of a "core guy" than Smoot is to the Redskins right now

SKINSnCANES · 02-02-2005, 06:20 PM

the dolphins cant afford him, they are 16 million over the cap as it is already.

diehardskin2982 · 02-02-2005, 07:17 PM

no Surtain, he's not an answer he's to old, and to expensive

SKINSnCANES · 02-02-2005, 07:22 PM

28 is too old? How old is Smoot, 26...27...?

diehardskin2982 · 02-02-2005, 07:47 PM

for the amount that he'll ask for and the compensation that Miami will want, I'd rather go after someone younger like phil buccanon of oakland

02-02-2005, 01:47 PM	#16
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 5,454	everyoen agrees to pay smoot fair market value, except smoot. thats where the problem lies __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

02-02-2005, 02:00 PM	#17
manicd Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 155	Surtain's value So many times on this board, people were quick to point out things about our corner backs getting burned because we don't, and didn't have a pass rush for some time(this is mainly in regard to Champ getting toasted on occassion). Now look at the Dolphins. They are, and have been a pretty damn good defense with a lot of studs all over defense. Does Surtain look as good as he did in Miami as he would with a team where he is left out there all day. I just think the talent level in football is so close, that a solid group of players makes a lot of the guys look like probowlers(Eagles for one, these guys do nothing on other teams when they leave). In other words, lets try to keep what we have, and stop paying too much for a couple guys and find we can't keep our CORE guys.

02-02-2005, 02:06 PM	#18
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,233	Yup, I just wish both sides could find some kind of middle ground. Anyone know who Smoot's agent is? __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

02-02-2005, 04:06 PM	#21
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,233	I definitely agree there are better CBs, but the cost to bring them here is what we are trying to avoid. Smoot definitely doesn't deserve top CB money, and if he won't accept the deal the Redskins are trying to give him, I don't think another team will want to pay him that cash either, especially with Surtain on the market. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

02-02-2005, 04:10 PM	#22
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 5,454	Smoot has improved but I dont think he is a top corner. He makes a lot of mental mistakes still. Surtain is a great corner and is better. Smoot is a 'core guy' but part of what gibbs wants in a core guy is that he doesnt ask to be overpaid, and makes sacrifices to play on our team. Its hard for us to not overpay since as someone pointed out, we arent exactly competing as of late. but Gibbs is trying to change that. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

02-02-2005, 04:12 PM	#23
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,233	As I said before, I wish someone would just suck it up and do something about it, Smoot more than the Redskins. If the Redskins bow to his demands then any other Joe Schmoe on the team that is overarchieving will ask to be paid more than their value. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

02-02-2005, 04:14 PM	#24
Hail to the Redskins The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,687	OK, just to interject some sense into the Surtain talk... There is NO WAY the Dolphins would take Gardner for Surtain... even if you threw in a 4th round pick. It would take Gardner and our NUMBER 1 PICK... or a franchise and trade of Smoot (a la Chump Bailey) AND Gardner to the even ENTICE the Dolphins into giving up Surtain. Surtain is DEFINITELY worth a look for us. If Smoot is demanding the same salary as Surtain... you HAVE to go Surtain. He is bigger, plays tougher, and has the most (BY FAR) INTs in the NFL the past 3 years. Personally, I'd TRY to do it. If nothing else, it could drive the asking price for Gardner for teams like the Bucs who are interested. __________________ “Sometimes it is not enough to our best; we must do what is required.” - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

02-02-2005, 04:15 PM	#25
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,233	Hmmm... what about packaging Gardner and Smoot together if that kind of situation arose? __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

02-02-2005, 06:20 PM	#27
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 5,454	the dolphins cant afford him, they are 16 million over the cap as it is already. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

02-02-2005, 07:17 PM	#28
diehardskin2982 Another Year, another mess. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,581	no Surtain, he's not an answer he's to old, and to expensive __________________ That got ugly fast

02-02-2005, 07:22 PM	#29
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 5,454	28 is too old? How old is Smoot, 26...27...? __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

02-02-2005, 07:47 PM	#30
diehardskin2982 Another Year, another mess. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,581	for the amount that he'll ask for and the compensation that Miami will want, I'd rather go after someone younger like phil buccanon of oakland __________________ That got ugly fast

Surtain: Given permission to seek trade

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