A Clarification on whether the Redskins are Re-Building

[GTripp0012]

I'm just trying to get someone on record saying that, unequivocally, the Redskins are not rebuilding/are no longer rebuilding/never were rebuilding.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'm just trying to get someone on record saying that, unequivocally, the Redskins are not rebuilding/are no longer rebuilding/never were rebuilding.

Why?

[NYCskinfan82]

We need to look on our roster & see how many other team 1st rd picks we have. What did we give up to get them next to nothing most of the time. 2013-14 picks are gone IMO we need to stop crying about it. We have our QB now so we are rebuilding officially. Hopefully we trade back a few times and find a few Diamonds in the rough in the 5th thru 7th round. We have 5 or 6 picks hopefully we can turn them into 8 to 10. Last year spoiled me.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think you're probably right on every point here. But without trying to get you caught up in it, where would you predict their next move is, if you had to guess: towards 2012, or towards 2013-2016?

I would say towards 2013-2016. The free agents we've brought in that are expected to make significant contributions (i.e. not Cedric Griffin) are mostly in their mid 20's with room for improvement. With Griffin/Luck in the fold I think as of now they are setting themselves up for an average season this year, with the hope that maybe they'll exceed expectations, and then in 2013 we should have solidified the roster enough that we will expect to contend for the playoffs.

I think when Shanny originally came on board, he didn't expect it to take this long and be as troublesome as it has (which he has already admitted). This is probably his revised plan of action (as far as how many revisions this plan has had, I have no idea lol.). But I don't mind it, because I do believe that if Griffin pans out like we expect him to, nobody, other than the serial naysayers, will be complaining about the price we paid to get him. I've never had the opportunity to witness this team with a bona fide stud qb under center before, and I'm excited to see how much better that will make our team.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think the Redskins are finally rebuilding on offense (two years too late if you ask me). Last year to me, seemed like a rebuilding year for the defense. We have a lot of young players that hopefully can develop into starters (though some of them got starts last year due to injury), and hopefully we can pick up 6 more rookies (in addition to RG3) that can contribute to the team. I think we have done a good job at bringing in free agents under 30 years old for the most part this offseason and last offseason.

So far, it seems to me that the team has gone away from the win-now attitude. Although who knows what would have happened if we had not had the cap penalty. Still, I think we have a young team who won't be expected to do much this season, but has the potential to overachieve. I get the feeling that Snyder has given Shanahan and Bruce Allen a mulligan for the past two seasons. And that is a good thing, because we will definitely have a lot of growing pains this upcoming season.

I'm definitely in this camp. To answer GTripp's question literally, are we rebuilding, yes. By rebuilding the inference is that we are not a Super Bowl contender at this point which I don't really think is up for debate. However, I expect to see the most talented and most balanced Redskin team since 2007 on the field next year and a much improved product than in recent seasons.

I'm not really of the belief that the RGIII trade has crippled our chances to improve over the next 3 off seasons. That mentality is rooted in the belief that we will still be a 4-7 win team and picking in the upper 1/3 of the draft. I'm not discounting the value of first round picks but they are not a guarantee of success. We still have plenty of picks over the next three years to build a legitimate contender, assuming RGIII is what he appears to be. It's been so long since we've had quality at that position, we forget how much an elite QB can raise the performance of the overall team.

To answer the final question, yes, I think there is a plan and has been since 2010. 2010 evaluate the roster and start the 3-4 transition, try to win with core players plus a couple of additions. 2011 focus on building a playoff defense through the draft and free agency. 2012 focus on building a playoff offense, focusing on skill positions (that's why I don't think an early pick on a RB is out of the question) and specify areas of need. The cap penalties probably derailed our full plan this offseason but we targeted players to address one of our major shortcomings in recent years, team speed and explosive players.

I've been saying since late 2011 and into the early offseason, my evaluation of Shanahan starts this season. He was playing with Zorn's roster in 2010 and was hindered by a lockout in 2011. Now he's built his defense and his offense, let's see what he does with them.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

So they aren't rebuilding? Or you don't expect RG3 to live up to the no. 2 pick (at least right away)?

I think it's a bit of both, I do think griff will be a great qb but I obviously see some hard times next year. I'd be happy with 7-8 wins. But I don't think mike is really rebuilding do you?

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think the Redskins are finally rebuilding on offense (two years too late if you ask me). Last year to me, seemed like a rebuilding year for the defense. We have a lot of young players that hopefully can develop into starters (though some of them got starts last year due to injury), and hopefully we can pick up 6 more rookies (in addition to RG3) that can contribute to the team. I think we have done a good job at bringing in free agents under 30 years old for the most part this offseason and last offseason.

So far, it seems to me that the team has gone away from the win-now attitude. Although who knows what would have happened if we had not had the cap penalty. Still, I think we have a young team who won't be expected to do much this season, but has the potential to overachieve. I get the feeling that Snyder has given Shanahan and Bruce Allen a mulligan for the past two seasons. And that is a good thing, because we will definitely have a lot of growing pains this upcoming season.

What you wrote is in synch with my views. I have felt all along that the team has been rebuilding under Shanahan (even though MS avoids using the term rebuilding) and that it would take two free agency periods and two drafts
to begin to see the results on the field.

I think that what was done to acquire a Franchse QB had to be done if we were ever to become perennial contenders. If it turns out that we are able to draft a QB who becomes great, then the price will be worth it, although the loss of two first round picks and a second round pick could set back the timetable for our going deep into the playoffs.

I agree with you that the trade with the Rams has probably given MS more time to complete the rebuilding job. But would add the caveat that the team must play a more exciting brand of football in 2012 and become a team that nobody really wants to play for fear of being upset. I think that should be enough to satisfy Dan Snyder, for now.

It seems to me that by hitting the Skins with a whopping $30M cap penalty the day before the opening of FA, the NFL must have put a crimp in the Skins plans for acquiring impact FA's this year. I assume that Dan Snyder will understand the harm that must have done to MS's plans, as well.

I'm hoping that rebuilding is now acceptable to Dan Snyder and that DS has developed the requisite patience that goes with it. A change of direction at this point would be a disaster.

[Lotus]

Please define "rebuilding," because we can't really talk about the thread question without talking about the same thing.

If we go with a definition of "significant roster overhaul primarily during the offseason in an attempt to get younger," then spring 2011 we were rebuilding the defense and to a lesser extent the offense. In spring 2012 we seem to be rebuilding the offense by this definition.

Since rebuilding, in this definition, is primarily an offseason affair, we see that by August 2012 we will have substantially rebuilt both sides of the ball. Therefore an expectation of being competitive in the 2012 season and competitive to a greater extent beyond 2012 is fair.

My take on things.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Finally, do you think the Redskins even know if they're rebuilding or not? It seems like they could spin it either way at this point (lose = rebuilding, win = future is now!). I personally am tired of the front office spin though, I'd rather get YOUR perspective. So have at it.

Imo, when your HC is also your GM the FO will sometimes operate at cross purposes.
The resulting schizophrenic personnel decisions can impede the team building process.
That doesn't mean that the team cannot be successful.
I've always felt the saving grace for Mike Shanahan the GM is the acumen of Mike Shanahan the coach.
What I've heard and observed from Mike Shanahan suggest to me that like most coaches, he will always believe any team that he coaches can win now.

or the more direct answer: not rebuilding

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Rome wasn't built in a day. One day we will look back and say the same thin about the 2015 Super Bowl championship redskins.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Perry Riley, Roy Helu, Leonard Hankerson, Jarvins Jenkins, and Evan Royster are all players acquired after the first round in the past two seasons that have the potential to be starters. While it is terrible that we don't have our first rounders in 2013 and 2014, I don't see why we can't acquire a starter in the mid rounds during those two years.

You got me with the RBs, but Hankerson is still a question mark as a potential starter. The fact that we acquired Garcon and Morgan should have us fans thinking about what the coaches think about Hankerson. Riley and Jenkins are good, but we do need a few guys that can at least contend for Pro Bow honors. Those guys would just be able to make it as an average starter. I know there are gems to be found Ruh, and there are first round busts, but for one year we start off with a third round pick. I just hope our scouts earn their money. They are going to have to be the ones to pick up the slack with the RG III deal.

[Chico23231]

Tripp, they are still rebuilding. Even though it is an all in move to get RG3, its the most important piece of the puzzle. This is not a questionable move. This isnt Locker at 8, this isnt Jamarcus at 1, or Tannehill at 4. This is not a reach. Is it a sure thing? Absolutely not. But it is a necessary risk and a perceived great move by mostly everything I read and heard. Thats what's your question is really about.

Please dont expect 30 tds, thats retarded. But I will say this, if we get a Cam-like year from RG3 we are a 10 win team my friend.

Yeah we are not giving stupid ass contracts to guys over 27 or whatever the age is, but getting our cap/contract situation is a strength. You know the great thing about the CBA, top 10 picks money-wise doesnt matter, doesnt hurt us financially one bit if RG3 doesnt pan.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

You got me with the RBs, but Hankerson is still a question mark as a potential starter. The fact that we acquired Garcon and Morgan should have us fans thinking about what the coaches think about Hankerson. Riley and Jenkins are good, but we do need a few guys that can at least contend for Pro Bow honors. Those guys would just be able to make it as an average starter. I know there are gems to be found Ruh, and there are first round busts, but for one year we start off with a third round pick. I just hope our scouts earn their money. They are going to have to be the ones to pick up the slack with the RG III deal.

Which year would that be?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Which year would that be?

Well, if you don't count that worthless 2nd overall pick, that would be this year.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by mooby

Well, if you don't count that worthless 2nd overall pick, that would be this year.

Yeah, not like we're getting arguably the best prospect in the draft but we won't have a pick in the 2nd round!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! The horror, the shame, the soul piercing agony!