Heath Miller-Trade up question

[Monksdown]

Go to our Offense-Prospects link from the home page. And look these guys up. They are in some type of value order. if you hover over the top right side of them for a second. You will get a synopsis of positives and negatives for each player. You may overvalue Heath Miller a bit. A recieving tight end isnt what Gibb's wants. He wants a blocking tight end. His H-back does all of the short yardage recieving for him. And in the red zone, Cooley proved very effective.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

I really like Heath Miller, but he's not worth trading next year's first and a pick this year to move up in the late 1st early 2nd to get him. There is a chance we may need to use that 1st rounder next year for a qb. and he's also not a must have type of player at his position even though I think he could be a regular pro bowl player with his route skills and great hands.

[MTK]

I really don't see us trading up for a TE, don't see it at all.

[Monksdown]

You guys are homers for UVA. Heath Miller will never make a pro bowl. Trade anything to get him. Fuck that. If he slides to the 3rd, then consider it. Guys, again, again, again, Joe doesnt need a recieving tight end. He likes Cooley for short yardage packages, thats why he created the h-back. His tight ends block mostly. If he trades any pick to position ourselves to pick up that asshole, then Just paint me blue and silver and slap me!


Kellen Winslow was a much better te last year, and we picked up Taylor. Come on guys. I thought this site was for the intelligent, and informed fan.

[Schneed10]

Monksdown, I don't think anyone here is advocating the idea of trading up to get Miller. The question is what are the Redskins' needs? I personally don't see any major holes, so I think it makes sense to trade down. If they get Miller in that scenario I'd be happy. I'd also be happy with a guy like Marlon Jackson at CB or a guy like Clayton at WR, because we'd be drafting to fill out depth. My point was just that I don't see a need to get stuck into one positional need on draft day because we don't have major holes. And hey, Gibbs was looking hard at Winslow last year, so you know he at least entertained the idea of having a TE like that. I don't think Gibbs is one of those coaches that refuses to change his system. I think if he felt Miller would be a good addition, he would add him and find ways to use him.

All that said, I don't think Heath Miller is on the Redskins' radar. I think they're looking more at CB and WR. But I wouldn't mind if we got Miller.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

You guys are homers for UVA. Heath Miller will never make a pro bowl. Trade anything to get him. Fuck that. If he slides to the 3rd, then consider it. Guys, again, again, again, Joe doesnt need a recieving tight end. He likes Cooley for short yardage packages, thats why he created the h-back. His tight ends block mostly. If he trades any pick to position ourselves to pick up that asshole, then Just paint me blue and silver and slap me!


Kellen Winslow was a much better te last year, and we picked up Taylor. Come on guys. I thought this site was for the intelligent, and informed fan.

By the way, never threaten to become a Cowboys fan again. That's borderline blasphemy.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Guys....we don't need a pass catching TE. Plain and simple. We need a BLOCKING TE. While Miller is an adequate blocker as far as pass catching TEs go, he is not a quality blocking TE. In fact there have been rumblings that his blocking ahs been over rated anyways. We have FAR FAR FAR bigger needs than Heath Miller.

Exactly! I have also heard he's not that fast, we have Cooley, Portis, and now we need a pass catching TE???? I guess we don't need WR's with those 3 catching passes?????

I have no clue what the fascination with this guy is, especially for us who have no need for a pass catching TE, we need a big blocking TE who can catch the occasional pass! Which will be avail. later in the draft.

[BigSKINBauer]

if he goes in the first it will be to the steelers and he is most likely gonna go. I say trade down just a few in the first to like 20-25 and pick up a second or third.... that way we get him AND a second or third rounder

[John Hasbrouck]

We have bigger needs than Miller. Pass rushing DE- Barrows has no upside so put LB there-Gibbs is also extremely high on a LB out of Az. Alex Barron OT would not surprise me.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by offiss

Exactly! I have also heard he's not that fast, we have Cooley, Portis, and now we need a pass catching TE???? I guess we don't need WR's with those 3 catching passes?????

I have no clue what the fascination with this guy is, especially for us who have no need for a pass catching TE, we need a big blocking TE who can catch the occasional pass! Which will be avail. later in the draft.

offiss, I would like to take this time to thank you for educating those less knowlegeable fans by taking the time out to explain things to them. You are a gentleman and a scholar. You are right, a big blocking TE is more of a need than a pass catching one.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I think FRPLG underrates his blocking ability. He wasn't used as a blocker much in college because of his pass catching prowess, but when he was asked to block he was very effective.

Wrong...I don't rate his blocking abilty at all. I am simply expressing what I have read in numerous reports. He blocks adequately for being a pass catching TE. And secondily there are plenty of TEs who blocked well in college that wouldn't do well in the NFL. He is a PAS CATCHING TE who blocks decently...that is all.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I know you want a CB desperately...

I have not once advocated taking a CB in the first round.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

No. But show me where the hole is that would be considered a "FAR FAR FAR bigger need" than a playmaker like Heath Miller?

First off a pass catching CB is less valuable than a starting CB. I would argue a weakness at CB is worse off than a total lack of receiving production at the TE spot. So by that measure CB is a bigger need. An EVEN BIGGER need is at WR. We have no proven #1 WR...and were not talking about a bunch of second year players. These are guys who have some upside but we can't count on them. Williams is going to be better than all of them. FIll the WR with him if he is there.

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Besides, I tend to subscribe to the best-player-available draft theory rather than drafting for need.

I agree. Heath Miller is not going to be the best available player unless we trade down to the end of the first round at best. If there is a real play maker available when we pick then we take him because we go with the "best-available-player".

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

First off a pass catching CB is less valuable than a starting CB. I would argue a weakness at CB is worse off than a total lack of receiving production at the TE spot. So by that measure CB is a bigger need. An EVEN BIGGER need is at WR. We have no proven #1 WR...and were not talking about a bunch of second year players. These are guys who have some upside but we can't count on them. Williams is going to be better than all of them. FIll the WR with him if he is there.

I agree. Heath Miller is not going to be the best available player unless we trade down to the end of the first round at best. If there is a real play maker available when we pick then we take him because we go with the "best-available-player".

I disagree that WR is a big need. I'd be ok with it if we drafted Mike Williams because I think he'll become a hell of a player in the NFL in a few years. But look at the track record of rookie WRs in the NFL. It isn't pretty. He is unlikely to come in and make an impact right away.

If we can get Rolle or Pac Man at 9, I'd be fine with that. And we're very likely to get one of the two there. But trading back wouldn't be a bad idea, and all I'm saying is that if we end up with Miller in a trade down, I'd be fine with that too.

Here's a scouting report on him at scouts.com:
"Big, strong tight end effective catching the ball as well as blocking for the passing or running game. Strong at the point and getsmovement from run blocks or anchors in pass protection."

Now, I know you're not guilty of attacking me, FRPLG, but whoever the idiot was (angryssg?) who insinuated I wasn't knowledgable can try to put his knowledge up against mine any day of the week and come out a loser every time. Miller is a good run blocker, and he gives the ADDED BONUS of being a pass catching TE. He's just known for being a pass catcher because that's how he was used, but that doesn't mean his blocking sucks. Miller may be able to be had in the beginning or middle of round 2, which wouldn't cost a lot on the salary cap either. So if we can trade down out of 9, and get a CB like Marlon Jackson and end up with Heath Miller, I'd be a happy camper.

This whole thread started because someone asked if we should trade our 1st rounder in 2006 to get him this year. I say no way, but if we should end up with the kid on our team through a trade down, we'll be a more balanced offense.

[drew54]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

Trade anything to get him. Fuck that.

I agree. IF we trade down, and that is a HUGE IF, I think that we will most likely take WR or CB at that later pick and use the extra value we get to help build depth at some of the positions we are weak at, like MLB, S, and RG.

I see us drafting a TE for sure this year, but not Heath Miller and not anyone in the first.