ExtremeSkins Fan View

[4mrusmc]

Hey, Guy you must be a Ramsey fan? The one thing I will say about him is that he looked like he had that heart and determination. Maybe we can get descent trade value for him because as soon as Cambell was selected Ramsey was a short-timer.

[4mrusmc]

Does anybody know how to get old Redskins super bowl videos?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by 4mrusmc

Hey, Guy you must be a Ramsey fan? The one thing I will say about him is that he looked like he had that heart and determination. Maybe we can get descent trade value for him because as soon as Cambell was selected Ramsey was a short-timer.

not really, go look at the video, cooley sat in the endzone open for like 2 seconds before the ball was thrown 2 yards short of him and 2-3 yards to the right of him. being that far off on a 3 yard pass is what i'd call a bad throw.

[htownskinfan]

I think the articles bullshit,the int was the only thing ramsey did wrong,the fumbles werent his fault

[offiss]

I think whomever wrote that article is trying to convince someone he actually knows what he's talking about.

I can't believe he's comparing Antonio Brown, to Ramsey, as if there was any comparison from a QB to a kick returner, and Gibbs promised him nothing more than a tryout thats it. This comparison is absolutly ridiculous. Listen up artee, and answer me one question, when is the last time you heard a team grooming a kick returner for 2 years? That's right never! Why you ask? There is a big difference between the QB position and kick returner, you see at kick returner you either have it, or you don't, it's pretty simple. But at QB you need time to grow at the position, a big part of a QB's success is the continuity he developes with the players around him, he needs to understand the offense and how the coach want's him to run it, we still have recievers running the wrong routes and people expect Ramsey to move the ball like Unitas. And let's get something else straight as well Gibbs played Antonio Brown the whole game, amazing isn't it, our return man gets a whole game to prove himself Ramsey gets 19 minutes great comparison. And please if your going to say he fumbled lets just count the ones we actually lose's, the guy is getting creamed hanging in the pocket trying to make a play while the defenses are sitting on our simplistic pass routes, don't you think the O-line bares the brunt of the responsibility for that fumble? Do you think the ref's also share in it being they couldn't make a call there? Yet they have no problem making a call when it's not there, ALA Ramseys TD capping drive to Cooley, which if the ref actually had any idea this controversy is null and void!

[That Guy]

offiss, you should e-mail him, as i doubt he reads this site...

[offiss]

Originally Posted by That Guy

offiss, you should e-mail him, as i doubt he reads this site...

lol, his lose!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

I think the articles bullshit,the int was the only thing ramsey did wrong,the fumbles werent his fault

Regardless of fault, they happened.

I'm sure we could pick through Brunell's turnovers last year and find a few that "weren't his fault", but what's the point?

A turnover is a turnover.

[paulskinsfan]

What this guy conveniently leaves out of this article is that at least half of us wouldn't question Gibbs' decision if (1) He wasn't the one who went out and overpaid for a washed up Brunell and (2) He hadn't shown patience with Brunnell for 9 freaking games last year and yanked Ramsey in the first freaking quarter! Gibbs historically stuck with his qbs, even through dismal times. So what's the difference this time? The difference is Gibbs is responsible for bringing the ancient one here, so Gibbs is still trying to save face. Remember when Gibbs told us last year that we hadn't seen the last of Brunnell? How could he say that after witnessing such horrible QB play? He said it, cause he was trying to save face after what 99% of all football fans criticized him for overpaying for Brunnell in the first place.

Nevertheless, you can't pick your family, and you can't pick your starting QB, so on Monday night Im rooting for the old fart while downing multiple Buds to ease the pain. Please Mr. Brunnell, please don't return to your sucky play this week, hold off for just a couple of weeks, PLEASE! Go Skins. 100th post, god I waste a huge part of my day on here.....

[MTK]

Originally Posted by paulskinsfan

Remember when Gibbs told us last year that we hadn't seen the last of Brunnell? How could he say that after witnessing such horrible QB play? He said it, cause he was trying to save face after what 99% of all football fans criticized him for overpaying for Brunnell in the first place.

He said that because he knew Brunell was playing hurt and playing in an outdated offensive scheme.

Since then the offensive line has been vastly improved, we have speed at WR, he's healthy, the offensive schemes have been tweaked, the running game is improved, and most of the guys including Brunell are entering their 2nd year in the system and have a better understanding of what is expected of them.

When you put all these factors together, I don't think it's too crazy to think that Brunell can be a much better QB THIS year.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by offiss

I think whomever wrote that article is trying to convince someone he actually knows what he's talking about.

I can't believe he's comparing Antonio Brown, to Ramsey, as if there was any comparison from a QB to a kick returner, and Gibbs promised him nothing more than a tryout thats it. This comparison is absolutly ridiculous. Listen up artee, and answer me one question, when is the last time you heard a team grooming a kick returner for 2 years? That's right never! Why you ask? There is a big difference between the QB position and kick returner, you see at kick returner you either have it, or you don't, it's pretty simple. But at QB you need time to grow at the position, a big part of a QB's success is the continuity he developes with the players around him, he needs to understand the offense and how the coach want's him to run it, we still have recievers running the wrong routes and people expect Ramsey to move the ball like Unitas. And let's get something else straight as well Gibbs played Antonio Brown the whole game, amazing isn't it, our return man gets a whole game to prove himself Ramsey gets 19 minutes great comparison. And please if your going to say he fumbled lets just count the ones we actually lose's, the guy is getting creamed hanging in the pocket trying to make a play while the defenses are sitting on our simplistic pass routes, don't you think the O-line bares the brunt of the responsibility for that fumble? Do you think the ref's also share in it being they couldn't make a call there? Yet they have no problem making a call when it's not there, ALA Ramseys TD capping drive to Cooley, which if the ref actually had any idea this controversy is null and void!

Offiss,

You bring up some very good points. I think, however, that the author wasn't necessarily(sp) trying to directly compare Ramsey v. Brown. I think in context of Gibbs' decision making and the thought behind the dismissal of Brown and the benching of Ramsey, he was basically saying for us to win there are certain mistakes that have to be eliminated. Whether you are kick returner, starting QB, or perhaps an offensive lineman - Gibbs will make changes. And he'll be darned if he's gonna wait five, six or even nine games before he does it. I think this is what the author implied when comparing the two. I don't think he was comparing position v. position and how one impacts the game over the other. If that were the case, we're talking apples and oranges.

By the way, I do disagree with you on one point. Sir, Ramsey has most definitely had more than 19 minutes to prove himself. I think all of us would agree with that. And I know he has had several offensive coord. and head coaches and he's needed a chance to develop and so forth. But I think if we are going to make that argument for Ramsey shouldn't we make it for all the other Redskins that have had their development stunted by a system in constant flux?

Obviously this is just my point of view when I read the article. I might add, I thought the article was right on the money too!

[FRPLG]

You can absoultly compare Brown and Ramsey. You can't have drastically different standards for players on the team. One guy turned the ball over and cost us points as did the other. Whether one is a 4th year QB or a 2nd year kick returner doesn't matter. The message has been sent. DON'T TURN THE BALL OVER! If you say that and then ignore it in certain cases it can be a big morale killer. A good example is Nemo. Nemo looked like a beast in pre-season. He was pretty much heralded all over this board. We thought he'd make the team and play. Everyone was worried he'd take Rocks spot because he outplayed him a bit. But he couldn't control the ball much in preseason either and in the end he made the team but Nemo was inactive in game one. Message: DON'T TURN THE BALL OVER! Even in preseason.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

I think the articles bullshit,the int was the only thing ramsey did wrong,the fumbles werent his fault

I totally and respectfully disagree. On the clothesline hit by Briggs, I can see a lot of QBs fumbling there, Brunell might have fumbled just the same, but that does not excuse the QB from the responsibility of holding onto the football when sacked. Jansen needed to block Briggs there, but the QB has to hold onto the ball.

The other one was ENTIRELY Ramsey's fault, he's just lucky Jansen recovered it. He waited and waited and waited in the pocket. He double clutched like 2 or 3 times.

That's the thing about passer ratings. They don't factor in QB fumbles. Ramsey is at risk for so many of those because he holds onto the ball for so long. I'd take a QB rating of 70 from Mark Brunell over a QB rating of 75 from Ramsey, because Brunell's not nearly as likely to fumble. He can actually avoid a rush and knows when to get rid of the ball.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Offiss,

You bring up some very good points. I think, however, that the author wasn't necessarily(sp) trying to directly compare Ramsey v. Brown. I think in context of Gibbs' decision making and the thought behind the dismissal of Brown and the benching of Ramsey, he was basically saying for us to win there are certain mistakes that have to be eliminated. Whether you are kick returner, starting QB, or perhaps an offensive lineman - Gibbs will make changes. And he'll be darned if he's gonna wait five, six or even nine games before he does it. I think this is what the author implied when comparing the two. I don't think he was comparing position v. position and how one impacts the game over the other. If that were the case, we're talking apples and oranges.

By the way, I do disagree with you on one point. Sir, Ramsey has most definitely had more than 19 minutes to prove himself. I think all of us would agree with that. And I know he has had several offensive coord. and head coaches and he's needed a chance to develop and so forth. But I think if we are going to make that argument for Ramsey shouldn't we make it for all the other Redskins that have had their development stunted by a system in constant flux?

Obviously this is just my point of view when I read the article. I might add, I thought the article was right on the money too!

Your really contradicting yourself, you say Gibbs is going to make changes and he'll be darned if he waits 5,6,or 9, games, who are you trying to kid here, he waited not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, not 8, but 9 games before he replaced Brunell last season, who played the position as bad as I have ever seen.

The rest of your statements are all over the place I really don't know were to begin but I will try.

You stated that our offense is in constant flux and that all players should be afforded the same opportunity as Ramsey? Then you say we all can agree on the fact that he's had more than 19 minutes to prove himself, was he playing a pickup game in the parking lot I missed? What is it about the comparison between a KR and a QB you don't understand? Why is the QB the highest paid player in the league, and kick returners on the bottom of the food chain? Could it be becuase it's the most difficult position on the field and takes the longest to learn, it's taken some of the great QB's 3 years to develope in the same system playing every game, not 6 or 7 quarters in the pre-season.

Give me your reasons for say a player like Antonio Brown and how you believe his growth is stunted on special's. Because I know I can give you a 100 reason's and example after example, on why a QB need's time to develope, SIR!

[offiss]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

You can absoultly compare Brown and Ramsey. You can't have drastically different standards for players on the team. One guy turned the ball over and cost us points as did the other. Whether one is a 4th year QB or a 2nd year kick returner doesn't matter. The message has been sent. DON'T TURN THE BALL OVER! If you say that and then ignore it in certain cases it can be a big morale killer. A good example is Nemo. Nemo looked like a beast in pre-season. He was pretty much heralded all over this board. We thought he'd make the team and play. Everyone was worried he'd take Rocks spot because he outplayed him a bit. But he couldn't control the ball much in preseason either and in the end he made the team but Nemo was inactive in game one. Message: DON'T TURN THE BALL OVER! Even in preseason.

Your right, you know another good example is Brunells 9 turnovers in 9 games and giving up 2 defensive TD's, Gibbs really showed him! Double standard? NOOOOOOOOOO, not Gibbs.