D-Line help without trading down

[kingerock]

I still say trade down for Tommie Harris. He may not have the big numbers last season, but he is the next great DT. I said it here 1st. Trade down and get a 3rd or 4th round pick in the deal. Bowen and Ohalete can handle the middle, especially if we can put pressure on the QB. That, to me, has to be our #1 priority in the draft, getting some help up front. Tommie Harris is starting to become the 1st round 'gem' since he's getting no love from most of the mock drafters. I mean a big d-tackle that runs a 4.78 - 40!!!

[SKINSnCANES]

Id rather have Vince Wilfork. V.Wilfork gets double teamed and uses on of those linemen to throw them into the QB.

[SKINSnCANES]

Either way, we'd be stupid to not take Winslow or Taylor.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by kingerock

I still say trade down for Tommie Harris. He may not have the big numbers last season, but he is the next great DT. I said it here 1st. Trade down and get a 3rd or 4th round pick in the deal. Bowen and Ohalete can handle the middle, especially if we can put pressure on the QB. That, to me, has to be our #1 priority in the draft, getting some help up front. Tommie Harris is starting to become the 1st round 'gem' since he's getting no love from most of the mock drafters. I mean a big d-tackle that runs a 4.78 - 40!!!

If you look at his physical ability you could say he was the second coming of reggie white, but that's where it end's, show me the big time guard or tackle he dominated, I don't say that to be funny, I really haven't followed the guy like yourself and I want to know what I may have missed.

[MTK]

Fiore is contemplating retirement, so I don't think he's going to worth much at all.

[SKINSnCANES]

Hopefully Dockery under Bugel will mature enough to be able to not give up so many big plays this year. Whoever gets Vernon Carey out of Miami is going ot get a hell of a guard in end of the first round. If for some reason we traded down and got later picks he would be a great pickup.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SKINSnCANES

we'll see. I hope Cerrato did a better job of scouting this year and we can get a gem in the later rounds.

And your hope that this occurred is based on what? His excellent late round record from his time in SF? No - Cerrato can track numbers on current pro players and seems to be able to tell which college star will translate to the NFL (Samuels, Arrington, Bailey, Gardner, Ramsey) , but he lacks "the eye" when it comes to unearthing average/good college talent that will step up to the next level. I may be wrong but has he ever hit, I mean really hit - quality starter/pro bowler - outside the second round (almost limited it to first but then thought of Smoot and Jansen)?

With that said, however, his first rounders have been good solid hits and no horrid busts. That is not something to be completely disregarded.

[SkinsRock]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

And your hope that this occurred is based on what? His excellent late round record from his time in SF? No - Cerrato can track numbers on current pro players and seems to be able to tell which college star will translate to the NFL (Samuels, Arrington, Bailey, Gardner, Ramsey) , but he lacks "the eye" when it comes to unearthing average/good college talent that will step up to the next level. I may be wrong but than has he ever hit, I mean really hit - quality starter/pro bowler - outside the second round (almost limited it to first but then thought of Smoot and Jansen)?

With that said, however, his first rounders have been good solid hits and no horrid busts. That is not something to be completely disregarded.

Keep in mind that he now has Joe Gibbs looking over his shoulder, and developing late round picks are Gibbs' strength, so it should balance out.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SkinsRock

Keep in mind that he now has Joe Gibbs looking over his shoulder, and developing late round picks are Gibbs' strength, so it should balance out.

Gibbs is undoubtedly good at developing actual talent that others cannot reach. The question, though, is whether he will be given any actual talent by Cerrato and crew. Gibbs can't make diamonds from quartz but can pull the diamond out of a muddy rock and polish it up real nice.

For example, what players drafted by VC in the later rounds have moved on and been developed by other talented coaches?

[SKINSnCANES]

I wonder how much research Joe has done to later round players. He just came back to football, hes probably only watched tapes that have been given to him. I bet his concentrating on the first day, and any trades that may result on the first day.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

And your hope that this occurred is based on what? His excellent late round record from his time in SF? No - Cerrato can track numbers on current pro players and seems to be able to tell which college star will translate to the NFL (Samuels, Arrington, Bailey, Gardner, Ramsey) , but he lacks "the eye" when it comes to unearthing average/good college talent that will step up to the next level. I may be wrong but than has he ever hit, I mean really hit - quality starter/pro bowler - outside the second round (almost limited it to first but then thought of Smoot and Jansen)?

With that said, however, his first rounders have been good solid hits and no horrid busts. That is not something to be completely disregarded.

don't discount dockery yet. I think he can be an awesome guard especially under the tutelage of the man Mr. Bugel.

[SKINSnCANES]

Well Dockery definitly needs someone to tutor him. He seems to have no insticts at all last year. Whether it was stepping on people, not picking up blockers. He didnt seem to do anything right until the end of the season. But hey, he lost some games for us, we get a better pick because of it. I just hope he learned a lot and worked hard this offseason.

Joe, did you seem him at training camp, how did he look?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

don't discount dockery yet. I think he can be an awesome guard especially under the tutelage of the man Mr. Bugel.

Originally Posted by SKINSnCANES

Well Dockery definitly needs someone to tutor him. He seems to have no insticts at all last year. Whether it was stepping on people, not picking up blockers. He didnt seem to do anything right until the end of the season. But hey, he lost some games for us, we get a better pick because of it. I just hope he learned a lot and worked hard this offseason.

I agree with both of you. Dockery may yet pan out but he ain't there yet and could very well wash out. But, if he can be taught, Bugel is the man to do it. I think, however, that your right SFT and that Dockery will be a very good guard for long time.

OKAY, as to Vinny - How about a fourth rounder : ) ? Despite Jansen, Smoot and Dockery, is there anyone there who disagrees with my basic premise? That being - Vinny doesn't have a particularly good eye for finding average college talent that will translate to very good NFL talent? Remember, all three of them were highly regarded prospects coming out and Smoot was discussed as a No. 1 pick.

[SKINSnCANES]

When did Cerrato get here, and what year was Stephen Davis drafted in. He was a what, 4th rounder? or 6th? one of the two I cant remember.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

I pretty much agree with your assesment joe except there was also Cartwright (7th round), but I think that was more Marty's pick if I remember correctly.