McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Based on this one move, the conclusion still would not be that [they] are idiots. If for only one reason is, McNabb is a clear upgrade from Jason Campbell. If for another reason, the Redskins have not had a franchise QB since Joe Theismann (and some may argue that he wasn't necessarily a franchise QB.) If you're adding in the prospects of what the FO will do with our #4 pick, then this move will turn out to cost us nothing than the money in McNabb's contract (and we have no cap and Snyder has deep pockets who cares about that anyway?) We may in fact be able to trade down and get that second round pick back and possibly other picks if we don't use the #4 to get Okung. Which will be likely if Okung is gone before we pick #4.

So, I really can't see how one can call the FO idiots for solidifying a pressing need that we haven't had in years (a solid starting QB) and still having options left to rebuild the offensive line. I can see if we traded our only pick away on McNabb, but that didn't happen. Now the Redskins (assuming the OL gets addressed with the draft) are instant contenders in the NFC with a QB who can play for us for the next 3 or 4 years at least. By that point, hopefully we will draft a new young RB, and our offensive line will be solid. And then we can concentrate on drafting a new QB. I was unsure about the McNabb move in the beginning, but now I see it as a big blessing for us.

The same reasons that it's clear that McNabb is an upgrade from Jason Campbell is the exact same reason that this trade has limited upside. The reason that no one is arguing that McNabb is better is because they are both proven commodities in the NFC East. It's also why we know, or at least have a good idea of, McNabb isn't going to get any better going from Philadelphia to Washington. The situations are fairly similar, but he's just losing some good weaponry (while picking up a few TEs).

I do not wish to dispute the historical value of one player to the other. They've been pretty close in recent years, but McNabb has been established since before Campbell was drafted. There's no reason to act like we shouldn't expect a quick upgrade, because we certainly paid for one, and most (not all) of the evidence sees McNabb as the better player in 2010.

The above, not in dispute.

There is an uncertainty factor on how much longer McNabb can play at a high level, and the Eagles know that they were getting too close to the point for comfort. This is also undeniable. This does not mean that the Eagles knew something we didn't about McNabb this season, but as a franchise that had options, why wouldn't they be willing to let someone else in the division deal with his decline? It's a huge advantage to pick now to move to Kolb, and work on building a core of passing production rather than sustaining.

Look, there's only so much spin that the homers can put on this deal. This is because we know what McNabb and have a good idea of what he is and will be, and we made the conscious decision to mortgage the future for something that could be up to an additional win this season. This has not worked in the past for a price greater than a 4th round pick (for which we secured Pete Kendall), and there's little reason to presume a sudden positive outcomes with results.

I really hope that John Clayton and the others who see only the upcoming season as significant are right in their assessments, but most aren't willing to go so far as to make this trade seem so one-sided.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by 44ever

I think they would really want to have T.O. The only reason they might not take him is to protect Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly. But I still say its gonna happen. we'll see.

I agree with you that Marshall is another that may end up here.

A few weeks ago I would have told you, in my head at least, that you were crazy for considering that Marshall has any real shot at coming here, but after the McNabb trade the Madden Heads (not you) seem slightly less crazy, notice I said slightly.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Skinsguy;



This made me laugh. I remember living those days and don't remember even remotely thinking Theismann was a franchise QB. People wanted him traded out for better QB's. But one could say that about all of JGibbs QB's. He seemed to get the most out of QB's. Doug Williams was not even looked upon as a franchise QB, hell Tampa got rid of him cause he didn't live up to their expectations. Their loss our gain.

JoeyT may not have been looked at as a franchise QB pre-Gibbs but for about a 3 year stretch under Gibbs he was arguably the best QB in the league and that included a league MVP in 1983. IMO he was a franchise QB.

[53Fan]

Interesting read by Len Pasquelli. I'm hoping for the best, but we'll just have to wait and see how it goes. I'm not ready to extol the supposed superior skills of McNabb or the genius and good fortune of this transaction until I see results. I have my doubts, but for the sake of us fans, I hope it works out well and we can regain what we once had.

NFL: The Donovan McNabb deal is a lose-lose proposition for the Philadelphia Eagles and Washington Redskins - ESPN

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

A few weeks ago I would have told you, in my head at least, that you were crazy for considering that Marshall has any real shot at coming here, but after the McNabb trade the Madden Heads (not you) seem slightly less crazy, notice I said slightly.

I continue to maintain that the McNabb trade was surprising (for sure!) but not Madden-esque. There's a difference between surprising and crazy.

[SmootSmack]

The 2011 conditional fourth-round pick that Washington traded to Philadelphia will go to a third-round pick if one of two conditions is met, according to league sources:

• McNabb goes to the Pro Bowl.

• McNabb plays in 70 percent of the Redskins plays and Washington wins nine games.

I'm hoping we do ending up trading a 3rd rounder

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

The 2011 conditional fourth-round pick that Washington traded to Philadelphia will go to a third-round pick if one of two conditions is met, according to league sources:

• McNabb goes to the Pro Bowl.

• McNabb plays in 70 percent of the Redskins plays and Washington wins nine games.

I'm hoping we do ending up trading a 3rd rounder

Sounds like a good deal to me. Nine wins....that would be a five win improvement, even more than Clayton predicted.

[Bushead]

I'm so on the fence about what this means to the redskins. I've watched McNabb for years and he has tons of good qualities about him. But, then he had a great coach backing him up in a pass happy offense. Then I think he will be a great leader, but then I read articles where he wasn't that great.

I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't know of anyone who said all the bolded is false. I assume you have a reading comprehension problem, and you're talking about me suggesting that you might be overrating the effect of some unproven (but not disproven) in-the-box/out-of-pocket factors that would suggest that maybe, McNabb was being completely misused in Philadelphia.

For certain, the premise that McNabb was out of place in the Eagles offense he helped build is a weak point that you hang on to. I never said that it was completely without evidence whatsoever, I just asked you to produce some.

Your weakness here is obvious, but I guess I'm happy for you that you found someone to throw out some one-liner cliches that just happen to match what you've said. That's kind of convenient, actually.

Campbell beating out McNabb short passing-wise? Uhhh, no.
O that requires the QB to throw on the run or extend that play? McNabb wins by a longshot. We know he has the instincts to make plays on the move.
Deep ball? McNabb
Age? Evened out by Campbell lack of experience.
Durability? When Fat Andy passes 50+ times a game, of course he's going to get his QB hurt eventually.

You can't claim self-evidence as logical support when your arguments are entirely faith based. I'll do you the courtesy of not accepting your failures here as support for my arguments validity, and I wouldn't jump to a conclusion and rule out the fact that there's genius in this move that neither of us can see, but I'm just going to reject most if not all of your premises here as some mix of false and insignificant.

I have no idea what you mean by McNabb "knows how to play on the run". He doesn't complete too many of his deep balls, so perhaps he should take some of that great touch off of it. McNabb isn't Rodgers (that one was particularly easy).

You're going to reject some or all of those premises as false or insignificant, right?

I do remember arguing how McNabb did have the at least some of properties that former Shanahan QBs had, namely, the ability to make plays both in and out of the pocket, mobility, and arm strength.

I also remember arguing how McNabb having a running game will help him out. You essentially said "oh really?" and now out of McNabb's own mouth he goes illustrates an example on the John Thompson show of how a running game can affect the defense.

You were opposed the trade at least partially on the grounds that it was too expensive and not worth it, and yet this GM says that it wasn't too steep.

"McNabb was being completely misused in Philadelphia.
For certain, the premise that McNabb was out of place in the Eagles offense he helped build is a weak point that you hang on to. I never said that it was completely without evidence whatsoever, I just asked you to produce some.
"
You're also putting words in my mouth and trying to make it sound vaguer than it actually was. I never said he was OUT OF PLACE in the sense that the scheme was NOT to his strengths, just that Reid's playcalling often turned it one-dimensional and that he tried to "discipline" him into a pocket passer too much. In one of those preseason games, the pass rush on him was pretty hot, but Vick had plenty of time because the were afraid of his running threat even though it'd been a few years since he even played football .
These can be considered obstacles, not major ones, but definitely NOT difficult to correct. How the hell did you infer that these two things lead to he is "completely misued" is beyond me, unless you believe so highly in your powers of induction that you deliberately interpreted that way. "Completely misused" is trying to make him make all the throws Chad Pennington can make and go deep may once a game. Reid got it right in designing a lot of big plays for McNabb, but his playcalling and possible overcoaching may have hinder the team juuuust enough.

Shanahan knows about using a good running game and he also uses bootlegs and rollouts(again confirmed by the article), which means these aforementioned limitations are essentially lifted.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

The 2011 conditional fourth-round pick that Washington traded to Philadelphia will go to a third-round pick if one of two conditions is met, according to league sources:

• McNabb goes to the Pro Bowl.

• McNabb plays in 70 percent of the Redskins plays and Washington wins nine games.

I'm hoping we do ending up trading a 3rd rounder

same here.. guessing that means offensive plays

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I couldn't tell you who that was, I'm on the Idiot List (see post # 273). That being said, I guess we can add John Keim's sources to this list too.

Obviously. After all, real GMs don't know what they're talking about. We certainly did overpay for McNabb. Guys like KC Joyner said so.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

The 2011 conditional fourth-round pick that Washington traded to Philadelphia will go to a third-round pick if one of two conditions is met, according to league sources:

• McNabb goes to the Pro Bowl.

• McNabb plays in 70 percent of the Redskins plays and Washington wins nine games.

I'm hoping we do ending up trading a 3rd rounder

With a lot of third/fourth/fifth alternates making it to the Pro Bowl, I don't know if this is so great. I hope there's some clear language about this (i.e. first ballot Pro Bowl).

[Defensewins]

Yawn....I get a headache from the know it alls that are fighting about what might be.
'Donavan will never be better than what he was in Philly.'
Clausen is the next Peyton Manning.' LOL!

It is great to talk about the future, but nobody knows what will happen.
Who knew that Doug Williams would come out of almost retirement and win a SB with the Redskins in 87?
Who knew Tom Brady who could not start in Michigan would win three SB's?
Give it a rest you guys.
You are all brilliant and the smartest on this board. There....do you feel better?

[tryfuhl]

Interesting to hear DeSean Jackson say that they needed a change, they've got young players and many of them are excited about the change

[johno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

The 2011 conditional fourth-round pick that Washington traded to Philadelphia will go to a third-round pick if one of two conditions is met, according to league sources:

• McNabb goes to the Pro Bowl.

• McNabb plays in 70 percent of the Redskins plays and Washington wins nine games.
I'm hoping we do ending up trading a 3rd rounder

i would be more than happy to give up a 3rd if we get 9 wins. 9 wins would be amazing. i dont think that is realistic, but possible.