Ongoing CBA discussions

[skinsfaninok]

^ what a joke man

[SBXVII]

The players make enough money to pay for their own insurance through the NFLPA and they make enough money to put 5 or 10% of their earnings towards a retirement fund. I find it a moot point for 4 mill to be set aside just for them when they are negotiating their own contracts anyway.

[Longtimefan]

There's a leadership problem, in my judgment. You don't see deals done before absolute Armageddon is on the horizon when that's the way that the sides approach collective bargaining. What we've seen here is an issue where the leadership and the strongest elements within the constituency of the players and the constituency of the owners is insisting on toeing a very hard line, and they've sort of painted themselves into a corner. Neither side wants to blink first.

[saden1]

Redskins' Vonnie Holliday: Holliday: Players Want Fair CBA - ESPN Video - ESPN

[saden1]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

^ what a joke man

I find it funny that you want to draft Jake Locker....now that's a real joke.

[CRedskinsRule]

NFLLabor.com EXCLUSIVE: Summary of NFL proposal to NFLPA «

[CRedskinsRule]

from Albert Breer's twitter:

[CRedskinsRule]

and

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by saden1

I find it funny that you want to draft Jake Locker....now that's a real joke.

We will see in 3 years my man

[Ruhskins]

It kills me how much fans support the owners. I think both sides are at blame and should have done this sooner rather than later. While the players may have forced this situation in the last hours, the owners wanted to force a lockout for the longest time.

[CRedskinsRule]

interesting release from the US Chamber of Commerce:
U.S. Chamber Statement on Decision of NFL Players Association to Decertify As a Union | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

Release Date: Mar 11, 2011Contact: 888-249-NEWS
U.S. Chamber Statement on Decision of NFL Players Association to Decertify As a Union

WASHINGTON, D.C.—U.S. Chamber of Commerce Senior Vice President of Labor, Immigration, and Employee Benefits, Randel K. Johnson, issued the following statement today on the decision by the NFL Players Association to decertify as a union:

“We are troubled by the decision of the NFL Players to decertify as a union so that they may litigate under the antitrust laws, with the prospect that once the litigation is over they will again claim they are a union. Gaming the labor laws and the antitrust laws offers a potentially disastrous model for labor-management relations in this country and raises serious questions of labor policy.”

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is the world’s largest business federation representing the interests of more than 3 million businesses of all sizes, sectors, and regions, as well as state and local chambers and industry associations.

# # #

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

It kills me how much fans support the owners. I think both sides are at blame and should have done this sooner rather than later. While the players may have forced this situation in the last hours, the owners wanted to force a lockout for the longest time.

And DeMaurice Smith has wanted to de-certify for just as long. I think it's a chicken and egg question, both sides knew it was coming to this, both sides tried to set themselves in the best possible position. But when push came to shove the owners made a bunch of concessions and Smith upped his demands from 5 years to 10.

The players are following Smith's lead, but you listen to them defend the position and its hard to say that they have a good idea of where he is taking them.

[Longtimefan]

Because of all of this chaos going on, with the parties not really knowing how this is going to play out in court, you could end up with a situation where both sides judge their legal position to be stronger than they might actually be. That's the one scenario in which I could see the work stoppage lasting a lot longer past early September.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

It kills me how much fans support the owners.

I don't get it either, but I pass it off as them being completely ignorant. The other killer thing is how people want to keep saying "Well, if i went to my boss and asked him to show me his books. I'd be fired!" Of course you would, but that's only because you are expendable and easily replaceable. They on the other hand are not.

Don't relate your employment situation to theirs. There are only 1696 NFL (excluding practice squad) players in the world. THE WORLD!! I imagine I can find that many of (fill in your job title) in a single state, never the less the world.

They are in the NFL for a reason, they are the best of the best and can't be replaced. What they can do cannot be duplicated. You on the other hand can be. You can train any monkey to be a fireman, policeman, teacher, doctor, but you can't do the same to replace a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. They are just like Aerosmith, Kanye West, Jack Nicholas, Tom Cruise, or Lady Gaga. They are unique talents that aren't replaceable at the current moment.

What does that mean? Still don't get it? Let me explain it to you this way. Let's say a person like Pavarotti (i know he's dead) played at the particular Opera house. His talent couldn't be duplicated, and people lined up around the block to get tickets to this hot item. Now Pavarotti and the Opera house owner came to a mutual agreement on compensation, but then after a couple years, the Opera house owner tells Pavarotti that the arrangement doesn't work for him. He claims his profits have declined over the past years even though his income has increase annually. He tells Pavarotti he's going to close the Opera house unless he decides to take less. Now Pavarotti is a fair man so he asks to see the numbers. The Opera house owner declines and says that he needs to trust him. Now think about this. Those people aren't there for the Opera house, they are there for Pavarotti. That whole business has been built off and thrives because of the talent that Pavarotti provides.


Moral: They can ask to see the books because their talent isn't replaceable and has made men BILLIONAIRES (that seemingly want more). You on the other hand cannot because you are a dime a dozen when it comes to the job market. Sorry guys, but that's just the way it is.


Reminder:

1) Owners opted out of this deal, NOT the players.
2) Owners have been positioning themselves for a lockout for years. (trying to exempt themselves from Monopoly rules via Supreme Court, brokering TV contracts with a lockout payment clause)
3) Refuse to show books claiming profit loss over the past years and wants the players to "trust them" on the numbers. (mind you, this profit loss could be from making 300 million one year to 299 million the following.)


You do the math. Big business and greedy corporations are ruining this country. Now, they threaten the status of professional football. The good news is, if the NFL ever folded, you can rest assure there are other investors that would take less to see it operate. After all, rich is rich.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I don't get it either, but I pass it off as them being completely ignorant. The other killer thing is how people want to keep saying "Well, if i went to my boss and asked him to show me his books. I'd be fired!" Of course you would, but that's only because you are expendable and easily replaceable. They on the other hand are not.

Don't relate your employment situation to theirs. There are only 1696 NFL (excluding practice squad) players in the world. THE WORLD!! I imagine I can find that many of (fill in your job title) in a single state, never the less the world.

They are in the NFL for a reason, they are the best of the best and can't be replaced. What they can do cannot be duplicated. You on the other hand can be. You can train any monkey to be a fireman, policeman, teacher, doctor, but you can't do the same to replace a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. They are just like Aerosmith, Kanye West, Jack Nicholas, Tom Cruise, or Lady Gaga. They are unique talents that aren't replaceable at the current moment.

What does that mean? Still don't get it? Let me explain it to you this way. Let's say a person like Pavarotti (i know he's dead) played at the particular Opera house. His talent couldn't be duplicated, and people lined up around the block to get tickets to this hot item. Now Pavarotti and the Opera house owner came to a mutual agreement on compensation, but then after a couple years, the Opera house owner tells Pavarotti that the arrangement doesn't work for him. He claims his profits have declined over the past years even though his income has increase annually. He tells Pavarotti he's going to close the Opera house unless he decides to take less. Now Pavarotti is a fair man so he asks to see the numbers. The Opera house owner declines and says that he needs to trust him. Now think about this. Those people aren't there for the Opera house, they are there for Pavarotti. That whole business has been built off and thrives because of the talent that Pavarotti provides.


Moral: They can ask to see the books because their talent isn't replaceable and has made men BILLIONAIRES (that seemingly want more). You on the other hand cannot because you are a dime a dozen when it comes to the job market. Sorry guys, but that's just the way it is.


Reminder:

1) Owners opted out of this deal, NOT the players.
2) Owners have been positioning themselves for a lockout for years. (trying to exempt themselves from Monopoly rules via Supreme Court, brokering TV contracts with a lockout payment clause)
3) Refuse to show books claiming profit loss over the past years and wants the players to "trust them" on the numbers. (mind you, this profit loss could be from making 300 million one year to 299 million the following.)


You do the math. Big business and greedy corporations are ruining this country. Now, they threaten the status of professional football. The good news is, if the NFL ever folded, you can rest assure there are other investors that would take less to see it operate. After all, rich is rich.

Ya know, your first statement really ticked me off. I don't consider myself ignorant, nor a blind owner follower (any more than a player supporter is a blind player supporter). Again the issues have been gone over and over, but to say a fan who supports the owners is ignorant is a highly ignorant position from you.

These players make hundreds of millions more than those that first decertified and made valiant strides to get fair deals for all involved. These nflpa personnel, and particularly the non player demaurice smith, are a bunch of arrogant sob's who think that they are partners in a business when they are not, it is just not their legal position whether there are 1700 or 17000 members in their union. I make no comparisons to my position or job, these men have 4 BILLION dollars to partition among themselves for their health, livelihood, and fair compensation for being the best of the best and they don't see that as reasonable. I call bs. Not because I am ignorant nor because the owners have been "good faith actors", but because the players association has been full of b.s. since smith started spewing his lies and leading good players and good men astray like lost sheep.

(Ps nc skins I refrained from saying a particular statement towards you for your comment about people who disagree with your point of view towards corporations, but really f that opening statement.)