QB Apocalypse: The Seventh Sign

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

But anyways, everybody and their brother has said that the Redskins MUST land a quarterback this year, or it's curtains for Shanahan. Those same people will say, "It's the same old Redskins if they pick up Peyton Manning." If the Redskins don't pick up Manning and don't trade up for RGIII, those same people will say, "The Redskins had to settle for another stop gap until they can truly find their guy. <Insert Name Here> just isn't a franchise quarterback." And yet, the same people who say the Redskins are too many players away from making the playoffs are the ones suggesting the 'skins MUST trade up to land RGIII. Doesn't make sense to me, personally. If you're going to argue that the Redskins are several players away from being a good team, then you'd support a move in landing Peyton, because you keep your draft picks and can still draft a good quarterback who could take over in a couple of years. You also have other picks to address those other areas of need.

Yet, when I explain this to them, it's like they all take an ignorant pill. So honestly, I'm so tired trying to explain and defend whatever move we all think the Redskins are going to make. Honestly, I see the sense in getting Peyton, and I see the sense in moving up for RGIII. I'm just like a lot of you guys....tired of not having that franchise QB. I don't think I can wait another season to get him.

Ha, Ha. I'm 100% in the same frame of mind. and your right the same people who say the Skins are rebuilding or need to are the same people who say the Skins need to throw as many draft picks needed to land RGIII. If we are more then 1 player away from the playoffs or SB then why waist the picks on one player.... pick up a FA QB, trade back for more picks, get a QB and some weapons and start the season.

I don't get it either. Personally the only reason I want PM is so he can help out any Rookie brought in. Will he? everyone thinks not but if and or when he finds out he can't play I'd like to be the team to offer him some form of coaching job simply because of his knowledge. But my dream scenario is Flynn, Blackmon (won't happen cause he'll be gone by #6) or Floyd, and Weeden.

Last year the team went: Defense, Defense, Offense. I hope this year they go Offense, Offense, Defense. The first two could be any order QB/WR or WR/QB, the defense I'd like to see them take a FS only cause the two last year were DL plus Jenkins will be coming back which will be similar to having a draft pick.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Ha, Ha. I'm 100% in the same frame of mind. and your right the same people who say the Skins are rebuilding or need to are the same people who say the Skins need to throw as many draft picks needed to land RGIII. If we are more then 1 player away from the playoffs or SB then why waist the picks on one player.... pick up a FA QB, trade back for more picks, get a QB and some weapons and start the season.

No. No they are not the same people. They are in fact, different people.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

No. No they are not the same people. They are in fact, different people.

In any event I find it weird how everyone has a totally different idea of where the Skins are at and how far they need to go.

1- we are way off and need to save our draft picks and trade back.
2- we are so close we just need a quality QB.
3- we need a Vet lets get PM.
4- lets not get PM cause he's never going to play again.
5- lets get Orton cause he's 100x better then Grossman.
6- lets go all in for RGIII. because it's all about the QB position.

AAAAHHHHH. Again I don't think we are far away from the play offs but I'm tired of being the Offseason SB team only to struggle during the season. A lot of us fans were wanting the Skins to follow the N.E. example of using the draft to build a team. Did they ever throw two or three yrs worth of top picks away for any one player? I don't recall them doing so.

A- will PM be healthy? who knows but he's a FA and we keep our draft picks. His knowledge is invaluable and could help the team.

B- Orton to me is not much of an upgrade over Grossman.

C- Flynn although a backup is healthy, showed he can make all the throws, and did fairly well against arguably one of the better defenses Detroit.

D- RGIII. I get it. he's awesome. but who will he be throwing to? Moss is getting old, and Hankerson has not proven himself yet. Gaffney and AA?

E- Luck? I can actually see him falling to #6. If the Colts take RGIII then Luck is very similar to what the other teams already have maybe slightly better. I see the reason RGIII won't fall is because he is not like the others, he does so much with his own legs like Vick back in the day.

F- 2nd round QB's? I think they are closer then people give them credit for. Tannehill, Cousins, Wilson, Weeden, I belive could all start as long as they have a decent OL to provide protection and giving them time to find a target. Just like Andy Dalton.

and "F" is why I'm saying lets save our picks, trade back to aquire more picks, get a QB and some weapons and continue to build the OL. Defensively I'm confused about the talk of needing a CB because we have a ton of them. We need a FS who can cover sideline to sideline and help break up passes or make the tackle. I can buy the ILB a little bit for developement for when Fletcher retires. Otherwise OL, and WR's and QB's.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

But anyways, everybody and their brother has said that the Redskins MUST land a quarterback this year, or it's curtains for Shanahan. Those same people will say, "It's the same old Redskins if they pick up Peyton Manning." If the Redskins don't pick up Manning and don't trade up for RGIII, those same people will say, "The Redskins had to settle for another stop gap until they can truly find their guy. <Insert Name Here> just isn't a franchise quarterback." And yet, the same people who say the Redskins are too many players away from making the playoffs are the ones suggesting the 'skins MUST trade up to land RGIII. Doesn't make sense to me, personally. If you're going to argue that the Redskins are several players away from being a good team, then you'd support a move in landing Peyton, because you keep your draft picks and can still draft a good quarterback who could take over in a couple of years. You also have other picks to address those other areas of need.

It is really a remarkable conundrum that Mike Shanahan has built for himself.

Ultimately what people say doesn't matter. If he trades up for RG3 and doesn't have enough depth to win, he's gone. If he sits tight at the quarterback position and builds depth and can't win close games because he doesn't trust the fifth quarterback he handpicked, he's gone. If he goes after Peyton Manning and bypasses a QB in the draft again and Peyton doesn't work out, he's gone.

And yet, if he completely and totally screws up the offseason but leads the team into a 10-6 finish in the regular season, then he gets his contract extended and everybody loves him. Because that's how the NFL works.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It is really a remarkable conundrum that Mike Shanahan has built for himself.

Ultimately what people say doesn't matter. If he trades up for RG3 and doesn't have enough depth to win, he's gone. If he sits tight at the quarterback position and builds depth and can't win close games because he doesn't trust the fifth quarterback he handpicked, he's gone. If he goes after Peyton Manning and bypasses a QB in the draft again and Peyton doesn't work out, he's gone.

And yet, if he completely and totally screws up the offseason but leads the team into a 10-6 finish in the regular season, then he gets his contract extended and everybody loves him. Because that's how the NFL works.

This is another topic. Everyone is on the bandwagon that if he has another bad year he's gone. No matter what. Personally I think after 10 yrs of whatever D.Snyder was doing not working out I think he's trying something different. Consistancy. I think there was a huge improvement from year one with our WR's and OL this year. Other point to yards and points and say otherwise but the team looked more like a team. I think given his full 5 years I think we all will be impressed and he can sign his new contract then.

The problem is there was so much to fix/change. I think the defense did very well last year and with an offensive infusion this year and a better understanding of the blocking the OL will be much improved, the WR's will hopefully be much improved with atleast 1 FA WR, 1 drafted WR, and Hankerson. Our RB's played admirably but I might draft 1 big bull dozing RB for short yardage unless they are happy with the Fullback. I don't think we are 1 player away but I think we are closer then everyone thinks when it comes to making the playoffs and making a run for the SB.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

This is another topic. Everyone is on the bandwagon that if he has another bad year he's gone. No matter what. Personally I think after 10 yrs of whatever D.Snyder was doing not working out I think he's trying something different. Consistancy. I think there was a huge improvement from year one with our WR's and OL this year. Other point to yards and points and say otherwise but the team looked more like a team. I think given his full 5 years I think we all will be impressed and he can sign his new contract then.

The problem is there was so much to fix/change. I think the defense did very well last year and with an offensive infusion this year and a better understanding of the blocking the OL will be much improved, the WR's will hopefully be much improved with atleast 1 FA WR, 1 drafted WR, and Hankerson. Our RB's played admirably but I might draft 1 big bull dozing RB for short yardage unless they are happy with the Fullback. I don't think we are 1 player away but I think we are closer then everyone thinks when it comes to making the playoffs and making a run for the SB.

The problem I have with acknowledging the improvement from year one to year two of the Shanahan clan is that you have to ignore how much the team (offense and defense) declined from year one B.S. (before Shanahan) to the first year of the Shanahan clan. If you understand statistical regression, it makes what was accomplished this year sort of expected.

And giving him credit for tearing apart any established talent on the team before heroically leading the offense back to where Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier had gone before just seems like an aggressive ploy to give meaning to an era of Redskins football that has been pretty meaningless. But that's just me.

With that said, I don't have a huge problem with how Mike Shanahan has attempted to solve the problem he got handed in 2010. It's just that I think that both the execution and results have been clumsy. I believe that Shanahan's model could have been replicated by about 27 other coaches in this league with more success. Of course, those 27 are employed by other teams and it's not like we could have just hired them away, so this is probably just sour grapes on my part. Might as well live with what we have.

And if what we have next year is Rob Chudzynski, I think we'll all be better for it.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It is really a remarkable conundrum that Mike Shanahan has built for himself.

Ultimately what people say doesn't matter. If he trades up for RG3 and doesn't have enough depth to win, he's gone. If he sits tight at the quarterback position and builds depth and can't win close games because he doesn't trust the fifth quarterback he handpicked, he's gone. If he goes after Peyton Manning and bypasses a QB in the draft again and Peyton doesn't work out, he's gone.

And yet, if he completely and totally screws up the offseason but leads the team into a 10-6 finish in the regular season, then he gets his contract extended and everybody loves him. Because that's how the NFL works.

Sad, but very true!

[GridIron26]

Skinsguy, many of us feel your pain. In the end, it is best to ignore everybody else and wait for(or at least hope) Allen and Shanny to prove all doubters wrong.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by GridIron26

Skinsguy, many of us feel your pain. In the end, it is best to ignore everybody else and wait for(or at least hope) Allen and Shanny to prove all doubters wrong.

Just kind of hard to do, because the fans from other teams seem to be pretty smug in their assessments of the 'skins - which I suppose they have good reason, but still. I had one guy to tell me that the Redskins only really earned one Super Bowl trophy, that the others don't count because of strike shortened years. Really? So all of those previous seasons in which the seasons did not consist of 16 games don't count either???

[SBXVII]

Skinsguy, to scale it on another note I loved last years draft. All those years of being the "Offseason Mega Team" only to find out those FA's failed or didn't help much killed me. Other team fans would say "Oh here we go again the Skins are going to win the offseason SB only to lose come the regular season."

Now the team does something completely different then what they have done in the past (trading back for more picks and only limited FA pick ups) and it's like the media doesn't know what to do so they tie every FA QB to the Skins this year. The fans are just as bad like they are having DT's and need a fix... lets get PM, Orton, Flynn, Hoyer, Bowe, VJ, etc. etc. etc.

I think it's obvious we have a problem at QB. No one wants Grossman or Beck back next year so the team will definitly need a FA to either start or as a back up, and the same can be said for WR. Moss has been on the decline, but I think we keep him. Bring in a FA WR and draft both QB and WR to develope.

I'm also not a fan of the popular choice. When everyone thought all the QB's would be declaring it was all about Luck. I was somewhat interested in Barkley. Then it was all Luck and Barkley I kinda fell off the Barkley bandwagon and was interested in RGIII. Then RGIII started getting attention I looked at Landry Jones. Barkley and Jones decide to stay in college, the QB pool got thinner and Luck and RGIII are now the only two good QB's cause there is some HUGE drop off.

Now I'm on to Weeden. He's my Andy Dalton. Weeden has the arm to make all the throws. He already has some knowlege of our system. He plays well with others (lol) I mean the coaches and he get along. and lastly I heard or read from some retired QB that they like Weeden also because he throws the ball with a tight spiral and it doesn't matter how strong you are what really matters is how tight of a spiral you throw cause thats what will cut through the air on windy days.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Skinsguy, to scale it on another note I loved last years draft. All those years of being the "Offseason Mega Team" only to find out those FA's failed or didn't help much killed me. Other team fans would say "Oh here we go again the Skins are going to win the offseason SB only to lose come the regular season."

Now the team does something completely different then what they have done in the past (trading back for more picks and only limited FA pick ups) and it's like the media doesn't know what to do so they tie every FA QB to the Skins this year. The fans are just as bad like they are having DT's and need a fix... lets get PM, Orton, Flynn, Hoyer, Bowe, VJ, etc. etc. etc.

I think it's obvious we have a problem at QB. No one wants Grossman or Beck back next year so the team will definitly need a FA to either start or as a back up, and the same can be said for WR. Moss has been on the decline, but I think we keep him. Bring in a FA WR and draft both QB and WR to develope.

I'm also not a fan of the popular choice. When everyone thought all the QB's would be declaring it was all about Luck. I was somewhat interested in Barkley. Then it was all Luck and Barkley I kinda fell off the Barkley bandwagon and was interested in RGIII. Then RGIII started getting attention I looked at Landry Jones. Barkley and Jones decide to stay in college, the QB pool got thinner and Luck and RGIII are now the only two good QB's cause there is some HUGE drop off.

Now I'm on to Weeden. He's my Andy Dalton. Weeden has the arm to make all the throws. He already has some knowlege of our system. He plays well with others (lol) I mean the coaches and he get along. and lastly I heard or read from some retired QB that they like Weeden also because he throws the ball with a tight spiral and it doesn't matter how strong you are what really matters is how tight of a spiral you throw cause thats what will cut through the air on windy days.

That's what gets me about the media as well. They have completely ignored the fact that Vinny Cerrato is no longer with the Redskins. Since Bruce Allen has taken over as GM, the Redskins have not been this "make a big splash in the offseason" franchise. That doesn't mean every player they pick up has worked out or will for the long haul, but they've made a lot better choices and smarter contracts than they have when Vinny was around.

Yet, like what GTripp said, Shanny puts himself in a tough situation. If picking up Manning is the best possible option for the Redskins, then it's going to be that the Redskins just HAD to make that big splash in free agency - even though the contract will probably be as such that works for both teams, not just some gigantic, overblown contract that puts the 'skins in cap hell. Yet, that part won't be discussed.

I guess "hatters are gonna hate"....LOL...I mean, "haters are going hate" but knowing if Manning signed with someone like Miami or NYJets, the media would be buzzing at how great this is for those franchises....lol!

I'll admit, I don't get as excited over the thoughts of Kyle Orton, or Foles over RGIII, but I'm like any other fan, I do tend to buy into the hype. I'll be the first one to admit that. I like the idea best of taking a chance on Manning and getting any one of those guys who are not Luck or RGIII, because I feel learning behind Manning would be great for any of those quarterbacks. And I like Weedon as well, but I think he'd be a short term solution (maybe five or six years.) I just know this team has went way too long to just settle. With that said, IF I know Snyder is patient with Shanahan and gives him a fourth year no matter what, I'd feel better about our chances if we couldn't get our guy this offseason.

[Chico23231]

When trying to find our QB seems like Shanny and Kyle arent on the same page, meaning they like different people for different reasons and cant seem to agree on one. They need to come together and by into an overall plan. Or is it some type of family pass down flaw where shanny's ego has a hatter mechanism, meaning when one takes a position the other must take the opposite position.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

When trying to find our QB seems like Shanny and Kyle arent on the same page, meaning they like different people for different reasons and cant seem to agree on one. They need to come together and by into an overall plan. Or is it some type of family pass down flaw where shanny's ego has a hatter mechanism, meaning when one takes a position the other must take the opposite position.

Sorry folks I'll keep this one small. I think it boils down to the offensive scheme. It's obvious they both would want different QB's cause their schemes are different. MS is mostly run with a little passing. KS is mostly passing with a little run. But the key is who's system are we using? we need a QB for that system.

[Chico23231]

Thats what im saying Tripp about a Kyle vs Shanny thing on the offense. They dont seem to be on the same page when it comes to QB and most important, stratgy. I dont see why Henne not being talked about, he's a better option than Orton.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Thats what im saying Tripp about a Kyle vs Shanny thing on the offense. They dont seem to be on the same page when it comes to QB and most important, stratgy. I dont see why Henne not being talked about, he's a better option than Orton.

Yeah, I agree with you. Mike hiring Kyle as OC and then not deferring the QB situation to him ever to the point where "his guy" became Rex Grossman...I mean, that's your compromise?

I think Kyle is very limited as an offensive coordinator, but I would certainly trust his judgement when it came to picking his own quarterback. Certainly, it wasn't comforting when he went out last year on the radio and publicly backed John Beck as a starting quarterback type, and Kyle has some of Mike's propensity to make outrageous claims about football matters, but if Mike doesn't trust him enough to select the next QB of the Washington Redskins, why did he hire him?