Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

well a handful on this site have spoken. You all seem to prefer and defend the read option.
I am fine with my views, I understand your valid points. The team situation seems damn if they do and damned if they don't. However, to protect it behind statements like Robert doesn't get hurt on RO plays is counterproductive. He has had more registered injuries on scramble plays- Atlanta, Baltimore. Clap clap clap. Now can more logic come into the matter? This is a discussion that needs an open mind.

Sure, what logic do you have to refute the fact that Robert got hurt on scrambles, not the RO?

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

Rob is taking plenty of punishment. Have any of you RO supporters banging your chest in support and anger towards my opposition ever thought that if the RO wasn't being used and pocket passing pro system installed that Robert would have been mentored and tutored to be safer? Perhaps he doesn't get hit by ngata or concussed b/c we don't run that silly RO bullshit and have taken the time to install in him his value and like in golf its about the next play or game or season. I say Kyle's wreckless RO put Robert in harms way and he should have been protecting him on behalf of the team/fans rather than operating RO and making Rob think on a scramble play to go for everything. Its the mindset that no risk may occur and that is crazy. Defenses get paid to send poster boys home/hurt. Act like you know this Warpath!

So you're saying if RG3 didn't practice running so much, he might not have gotten hurt last season when he was scrambling and...running. Non sequitur. BTW, have you seen the hits he took in the pocket this season?

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

I hear what you guys say on that but come now- I have seen him get hit to the ground on handoffs to Alfred and on the QB keeps he takes a lot of hits going out of bounds too. Some get flagged but most don't. Therefore, RO DOES expose Robert to unneeded hits and will/does take a toll on him.

Therefore.. how? You're saying Robert gets hit on handoffs, and going OB, and therefore he must take the same kind of hit running a different kind of play. Logically, this does not follow. Take the following statement: C'mon, Robert gets hit on handoffs and running OB, therefore spiking the ball DOES expose Robert to unneeded hits. See what's wrong with your unsupported declaration now?

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

The comment about the RO being a thing we do sparingly- Yeah I'm not hearing that whatsoever Matty. That is the bread and butter behind this offense. Perhaps the only reason we haven't used it more is anyones guess either b/c we are losing, or Kyle is a shit play caller to bring that into every game. I think Kyle's play calling can be agreed and is common ground, yes?
I don't understand the rational to say something that is used a certain % of times of game isn't our offense. What would it take for you to say it was- 90-100% RO plays? No team, not even in college does that. Such a position does not impress me.

Matty addressed this gently and beautifully.

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

I feel like Im centered in an argument with stubborn people. Fine you have your views, I have mine. At the end of the day, I see the '12 season as a failure b/c we didn't win the super bowl and our QB got major surgery that cost us the '13 season. Adding to that, the coaches and WP fans think RO is going to work with the Shanahans b/c San Fran/Seattle have better coaching, players, and will be back to back participants in the Super Bowl. I just lose respect for that mindset. For the teams that don't have the full cast of talented players and coaches. Implementing more RO with a QB that has occurred MORE injuries, with a shitty defense, is just outrageous. We gave up more to get Rob, have lost more than those now successful teams, and we bet the house to run a risky system? The '12 season was misleading. I thought Rob was being eased into the NFL and playcalling to be groomed into a pro style system. To think Shanahan hasn't learned his lesson is as awful as hiring his son.

The '12 season was doomed by injuries caused by not avoiding hits on scrambles, not the RO. San Fran ran the RO more last year because we did, not vice-versa. Your assumptions on MORE injuries are proven wrong. Risky hasn't been the RO. And Griffin has noticeably changed his running on RO's and scrambles to avoid hits like the two that really hurt last season. "Eased into the NFL" implies a gradual shift, which is what a mix of RO and tradtional drops would do. The lesson learned last season was SLIDE or OB, which RG3 seems to have learned very well. The lesson learned so far this season, is that without the RO and PA, defenders pin their ears back and blow thru our turnstiles (I mean OL) as RG3 just drops back. What do you suggest as an alternative?

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

Yes San Fran made it to the SBowl using RO. If we are pointing out obvious statements than I shall point out that they weren't as effective doing it, loss to the team we beat, and still managed to have more of a successful '12 and '13 season than we have b/c they have the intelligence to protect and tutor their QB and bring him along. Same can be said for Seattle. Both teams of which didn't break the draft bank to acquire their QB's of future either. I will be watching them in the playoffs at the same location the skins will be- from the couch.

More effective than what? Kap isn't as good as RG3, but they still made the Super Bowl with the RO in their offense. Yes we beat the Ravens in 2011, the Giants the year before, and the Packers the year before that. I wonder why we aren't three time defending superbowl champs... Lol, both SF and Sea still run the RO, did you see Wilson against the Saints last Monday?

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

These people supporting and defending the RO with technicalities quotes and references, I don't think adds anything to the real problems with the offense and like you, haven't
swayed my opinion not whatsoever. But again to the catch 22. We are so mixed up. We need repairs but who and what can fix us? Our problem is instability, but the foundation is crap. We needed more talent but lossed too many draft picks and cap space. Now that we have gotten some back, do we go down the same road with the same horrible coaches? We run a 3-4 but are the worst defense in the league. To fix it may be easier to revert BACK to a 4-3. We have cap space but have to spend it resigning players that haven't performed as expected in years past or have been riddled with injuries. And WOrst of all, there is a divide in the fanbase over Read Option.

Technicalities like what Seattle did to NO last Monday, or what we did to the NFL the last several games of last season? I doubt anybody cares what your opinion is (or mine), just whether we run what works for our offense. Hint: We didn't run the RO nearly as much early this season, how'd that work out? The other problems you cite were masked last season by... a dynamic offense that used a mix of RO, PA, and feeding Alfmo. Lastly, I doubt the WORST problem the Skins face right now is controversy over the RO.

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

Idk when the homer flag stops getting waived but its gets really old hearing this propaganda. And the opposition is just as confused how the RO can even be criticized.

What?

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

That's the Redskins. Play in MD, practice in VA, call it DC, and have to fight a civil rights issue to even be named. FML

Now this is funny, thanks!

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

And lining up receivers or tight ends in the backfield is a problem? I saw Jimmy Graham lining up in New Orleans' backfield the other night.

Alot of things are "problems" when you are a losing franchise. Its the way of the world. When you are winning nobody cares how it is done. When you are losing it is all about how it is done. Just boils down to execution and personnell really. Add in playcalling in the sense of timing. I just cannot decide if we dont have the talent to run kyles offense, or if kyles offense just isnt good? Or both? Time will tell I guess.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

Jesus Christ. Payton is the best coach in the NFL. What if Jimmy Graham ran a pitch option? would that be ok with you? Has Payton not called it? Does that mean he is intelligent? b/c your jumping in the conversation and adding stink like a butthole.

And don't worry about the pitch option play and Robert getting hurt b/c in the past and as the WP scholars have pointed out, he doesn't get hurt in RO, only on scrambles.

Im going to venture a guess that donofriose was being sarcastic. Also, i think this is an open forum where people and their stinky buttholes are allowed to jump in at their leisure.

[Mechanix544]

Of course RG3 is our franchise QB. He is too smart not to refine his pocket presence and reads. He just needs a better coach to help him with the rest of the team.

He'll be just fine.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Of course RG3 is our franchise QB. He is too smart not to refine his pocket presence and reads. He just needs a better coach to help him with the rest of the team.

He'll be just fine.

RG3 needs an offensive line that he can trust and doesn't collapse on every snap, reliable WRs not named Pierre Garcon, a full/healthy sophomore offseason to develop, and a decent defense that can complement the offense.

Just switching coaches is not going to do sh*t, if these other things are not addressed.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

RG3 needs an offensive line that he can trust and doesn't collapse on every snap, reliable WRs not named Pierre Garcon, a full/healthy sophomore offseason to develop, and a decent defense that can complement the offense.

Just switching coaches is not going to do sh*t, if these other things are not addressed.

So basically the most ideal situation imaginable. Got it. You forgot to mention all pro backups at every position in case any starters go down. Heaven forbid he be asked to succeed without a great Offensive line, elite receivers and a top 10 Defense. I'm sure we'll have all of that and more for the next 10-15 years, so he's definitely a sure fire future hall of famer.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

So basically the most ideal situation imaginable. Got it. You forgot to mention all pro backups at every position in case any starters go down. Heaven forbid he be asked to succeed without a great Offensive line, elite receivers and a top 10 Defense. I'm sure we'll have all of that and more for the next 10-15 years, so he's definitely a sure fire future hall of famer.

So you read my statement and assumed I meant all-pros at all of these positions? The team would probably have a better record if our offensive line and back up receivers were average.

Last year's offensive line was average, they had a lot of weakness, but they were good enough to make RG3 a good quarterback. I know RG3's ability hid a lot of these weaknesses, but they were definitely better than this year. After the Pittsburgh game last year, the back up receivers played a bit better and the defense came up big time during the winning streak.

None of these things are happening this year. The offensive line regressed from 2012 and collapses in just about every play. I don't think RG3 trusts them at all. Backup receivers are dropping passes a lot, although in their defense, I'm sure the crappy offensive line is affecting the passing game. And the defense is well the bad defense we've been having all season.

I'm sure (and I hope) that with a better salary cap situation, the team can find better options to players like Chester and Polumbus. Coaching is an issue too, but thinking that this is the only problem is right down laughable.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

RG3 needs an offensive line that he can trust and doesn't collapse on every snap, reliable WRs not named Pierre Garcon, a full/healthy sophomore offseason to develop, and a decent defense that can complement the offense.

Just switching coaches is not going to do sh*t, if these other things are not addressed.

So do you think he needs to play better?

[Bucket]

Goat is actually Vinny Cerrato in disguise. He's hatred for Shanahan boils with every passing moment.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Goat is actually Vinny Cerrato in disguise. He's hatred for Shanahan boils with every passing moment.

Actually with every passing loss.........

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Actually with every passing loss.........

Oh, it started well before the losing.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Oh, it started well before the losing.

I must have missed the winning he did here? In all fairness Goat has hated Shanny since I have been on the Warpath and that was well before his lone win streak. I know its everyones worse nightmare to admit that he was rite about Shanny, but he was. Lol. There are alot of people on that bus now, and if I hear one more thing about what he was up against Im going to explode. We have an entire thread about mistakes he has made here. This team is worse rite now than it was four years ago and the 36 million dollars that would have upgraded maybe 6-8 players on the current team (provided Shanny hit on them all - which is laughable considering the other moves he made) would not change that imo. It is a mess, and he is the captain of the mess. He had some great years in Denver, but in DC he has failed miserably. I am having a rather tough time understanding why anyone wants to defend him in the slightest? That probably has alot to do with the fact that since our last clusterfuck of a game I am realizing I have about 10 months until the Skins play a meaningful game again. Ugghh.
Edit: Goats love for Jabar Gaffney has always puzzled me, but his desire to see Mike pack his bags is reasonable beyond belief.

[Brody81]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I must have missed the winning he did here? In all fairness Goat has hated Shanny since I have been on the Warpath and that was well before his lone win streak. I know its everyones worse nightmare to admit that he was rite about Shanny, but he was. Lol. There are alot of people on that bus now, and if I hear one more thing about what he was up against Im going to explode. We have an entire thread about mistakes he has made here. This team is worse rite now than it was four years ago and the 36 million dollars that would have upgraded maybe 6-8 players on the current team (provided Shanny hit on them all - which is laughable considering the other moves he made) would not change that imo. It is a mess, and he is the captain of the mess. He had some great years in Denver, but in DC he has failed miserably. I am having a rather tough time understanding why anyone wants to defend him in the slightest? That probably has alot to do with the fact that since our last clusterfuck of a game I am realizing I have about 10 months until the Skins play a meaningful game again. Ugghh.
Edit: Goats love for Jabar Gaffney has always puzzled me, but his desire to see Mike pack his bags is reasonable beyond belief.

I'm good with another year of MS..

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I must have missed the winning he did here? In all fairness Goat has hated Shanny since I have been on the Warpath and that was well before his lone win streak. I know its everyones worse nightmare to admit that he was rite about Shanny, but he was. Lol. There are alot of people on that bus now, and if I hear one more thing about what he was up against Im going to explode. We have an entire thread about mistakes he has made here. This team is worse rite now than it was four years ago and the 36 million dollars that would have upgraded maybe 6-8 players on the current team (provided Shanny hit on them all - which is laughable considering the other moves he made) would not change that imo. It is a mess, and he is the captain of the mess. He had some great years in Denver, but in DC he has failed miserably. I am having a rather tough time understanding why anyone wants to defend him in the slightest? That probably has alot to do with the fact that since our last clusterfuck of a game I am realizing I have about 10 months until the Skins play a meaningful game again. Ugghh.
Edit: Goats love for Jabar Gaffney has always puzzled me, but his desire to see Mike pack his bags is reasonable beyond belief.

How is the team worst right now than when Zorn left? Have people forgotten how much of a joke and a mess this team was under Zorn/Cerrato?

I swear, sometimes I feel some people here are rooting for the team to fail so they can say they were right.

[The Goat]

Lol listen fellas the Gaffney thing has been blown out of proportion. When Mike signed Peter Boy and Morgan to those expensive contracts I argued he should have just kept Gaffney for another season or two on the super cheap, as Gaffney just had almost a 1000 yard season. But it was before we knew anything about Gaffneys trouble with the league, whatever it was. Shanahan probably did know and made the right call not bringing him back.

Still doesn't justify the idiotic Morgan contract, and Peter Boy needs to keep playing at his current level to justify his. That's all.