Redskins Sign DeSean Jackson

[That Guy]

what are you guys smoking? why would hank or robinson not make the team? are we only keeping 3 WRs this year? who else has been in here that's looked better than them for spots 4/5/6, cause i sure don't remember seeing them.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by That Guy

what are you guys smoking? why would hank or robinson not make the team? are we only keeping 3 WRs this year? who else has been in here that's looked better than them for spots 4/5/6, cause i sure don't remember seeing them.

At least one late WR will be drafted, and neither Hank nor Robinson are big ST players, which WR's 4 and 5 should be. If either one improves at ST, then keep them, otherwise, our receivers are 1- Garcon, 2-DJax, 3-Roberts, 4-Moss, 5/6 new WR's not yet named that will be groomed.

My rationale (and I hope Gruden's):
Signing DJax and Roberts locks down spots 1-3 for 2 years barring injury.

Hankerson's ceiling is pretty much established. If he was going to do anything he would have done it by now. He certainly isn't going to suddenly become better than 1-3. He costs $660K against the cap. Even if he had a big year this year, he is in a contract year, and would want money we aren't going to give him. So the ONLY potential he has for us, would for him to break out this year, and be a UFA next year, a team take him, and we get a compensatory draft pick. There is absolutely no way, barring injury to 1-3, that Hankerson is on the team in 2015.

Robinson pretty much the same as Hankerson, except he only costs 570K against the cap.

From a team building viewpoint this is the time to bring in new diamond in the roughs, let them develop for 2 years behind 1-3, and see if we can actually develop a home grown receiver. Again, if anyone wants to argue that Hank and Robinson should be those guys, remember their contracts expire this year. We have 1-3 locked up for at least 2 years. It really seems like a no brainer to me.

Late round rookies or Undrafted FA's probably are about 430K against the cap, so it's not really a money decision in any way. Simply that we just signed 2 premium WR's to 2 year contracts, and both Hank and AR's contracts end in 1.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

At least one late WR will be drafted, and neither Hank nor Robinson are big ST players, which WR's 4 and 5 should be. If either one improves at ST, then keep them, otherwise, our receivers are 1- Garcon, 2-DJax, 3-Roberts, 4-Moss, 5/6 new WR's not yet named that will be groomed.

My rationale (and I hope Gruden's):
Signing DJax and Roberts locks down spots 1-3 for 2 years barring injury.

Hankerson's ceiling is pretty much established. If he was going to do anything he would have done it by now. He certainly isn't going to suddenly become better than 1-3. He costs $660K against the cap. Even if he had a big year this year, he is in a contract year, and would want money we aren't going to give him. So the ONLY potential he has for us, would for him to break out this year, and be a UFA next year, a team take him, and we get a compensatory draft pick. There is absolutely no way, barring injury to 1-3, that Hankerson is on the team in 2015.

Robinson pretty much the same as Hankerson, except he only costs 570K against the cap.

From a team building viewpoint this is the time to bring in new diamond in the roughs, let them develop for 2 years behind 1-3, and see if we can actually develop a home grown receiver. Again, if anyone wants to argue that Hank and Robinson should be those guys, remember their contracts expire this year. We have 1-3 locked up for at least 2 years. It really seems like a no brainer to me.

Late round rookies or Undrafted FA's probably are about 430K against the cap, so it's not really a money decision in any way. Simply that we just signed 2 premium WR's to 2 year contracts, and both Hank and AR's contracts end in 1.

diamonds in the rough like devin thomas, malcom kelly, desmon briscoe or the other ho-hums we've seen trotted through here? hankerson is/has been better than them, and he hasn't done anything to merit a big deal, so next year if we like him, guess what? vet min. moss is less likely to make the roster than he is, cause he's only getting worse.

AR would also go before him, cause he only knows one route, though he did show some improvement. again though, we probably keep 6 WRs, and until some no names shows they're worth a spot, the law of averages and past performance shows that the 3 we've got are more likely to stay over someone we haven't heard of. if they do draft a guy, it'd probably be moss, than AR that get the boot. but i'm not going to fall in love with WRs we don't even have on the roster or declare the ones actually there dead until i see some proof that someone else can get on the field and play first.

and if you think the skins will keep a crappier player to save 100k, that's just silly. we're not the titans.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

I think AR will be our primary KR this season.

[SmootSmack]

Neither Hankerson nor Aldrick is a lock to make the roster. We're kidding ourselves if we think otherwise

[ICantGoAnother20yrsOfCrap]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Neither Hankerson nor Aldrick is a lock to make the roster. We're kidding ourselves if we think otherwise

Besides neither of them are the future. We'd do better by investing in a draft pick. Our current starters are young enough to cut bait on these guys and develop eventual replacements in the next couple of drafts.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by ICantGoAnother20yrsOfCrap

Besides neither of them are the future. We'd do better by investing in a draft pick. Our current starters are young enough to cut bait on these guys and develop eventual replacements in the next couple of drafts.

Exactly

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Neither Hankerson nor Aldrick is a lock to make the roster. We're kidding ourselves if we think otherwise

You could add Moss to that as well, correct? Basically past Roberts the rest of the corp is up for grabs.

[CRedskinsRule]

I think when you have solid starters is the time you bring in guys to see who wants to make it, you don't wait until the need is there (ie when Roberts DJax both are up for extensions in 2 to 3 years).

I said specifically that money isn't an issue either way, but the fact that you could have a guy under contract for 4 years with 1 to develop and 1 to challenge and then 2 more to play, makes a lot more sense than having a guy who hasn't developed enough in 3 years to prevent the team from bringing in a good FA (Roberts) to be the number 2 (until DJax was let go and signed).

Serious question for all those who think Hankerson especially ought to be on the roster, what more do you need to see from him for him to take Roberts place as number 3, or Garcon's place as number one? And when would he get the chance to prove it (please don't say preseason) before his contract expires next year and you need to decide what you want to do with him?

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I think when you have solid starters is the time you bring in guys to see who wants to make it, you don't wait until the need is there (ie when Roberts DJax both are up for extensions in 2 to 3 years).

I said specifically that money isn't an issue either way, but the fact that you could have a guy under contract for 4 years with 1 to develop and 1 to challenge and then 2 more to play, makes a lot more sense than having a guy who hasn't developed enough in 3 years to prevent the team from bringing in a good FA (Roberts) to be the number 2 (until DJax was let go and signed).

Serious question for all those who think Hankerson especially ought to be on the roster, what more do you need to see from him for him to take Roberts place as number 3, or Garcon's place as number one? And when would he get the chance to prove it (please don't say preseason) before his contract expires next year and you need to decide what you want to do with him?

His ceiling is nothing more than a good #2; he just doesn't have what it takes to be a Garcon, and certainly not an Andre Johnson.

Explosiveness and health are the biggest things I would like to see improve. He comes off the line too slow, and then relies on physicality/size to beat DBs. Sort of on that same note, he has a hard time making defenders miss in the open field. But health is the bigger issue; he's only played in 30 of a possible 48 games. If he had stayed healthy last year, he would've put up 48 catches for 600 yards and 5 TDs. That's a serviceable #2, great #3.

Right back at you: what do you see in his game that says that he can't be a good contributor to our WR corps? What makes you think that he can't put his great measurables together and become a star? You say, "Well, if he hasn't done it yet, he probably never will." But why not?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

His ceiling is nothing more than a good #2; he just doesn't have what it takes to be a Garcon, and certainly not an Andre Johnson.

Explosiveness and health are the biggest things I would like to see improve. He comes off the line too slow, and then relies on physicality/size to beat DBs. Sort of on that same note, he has a hard time making defenders miss in the open field. But health is the bigger issue; he's only played in 30 of a possible 48 games. If he had stayed healthy last year, he would've put up 48 catches for 600 yards and 5 TDs. That's a serviceable #2, great #3.

Right back at you: what do you see in his game that says that he can't be a good contributor to our WR corps? What makes you think that he can't put his great measurables together and become a star? You say, "Well, if he hasn't done it yet, he probably never will." But why not?

It's a fair question, and my best answer is this, over the past 3 years, name a WR on our team that you want to keep, and I can name at least a play or two that makes me go wow, and makes me think he's got something there:
for an example:
Garcon - he has multiple, but the Dallas game where he snagged a pass in the middle of the field and crossed all the way for a TD
Moss - obviously he has a ton
Robinson - the Dallas TD on Thanksgiving that sparked the team
Hankerson - nothin' maybe I just block it out, but I can't think of one play, where Hank made something out of nothing. What I mainly remember is a couple plays where he had the chance, and didn't make the play, or where with just a little more maybe he makes a game changing moment, but it never happened.

We have invested 3years of coaching and for Hank, not one play stands out to me as a "That's What I'm talking about moment". And this at a time when other than Garcon and Moss, the WR spot was there for the taking. Now, what motivates him, he's not going to overtake Garcon, or DJax, very unlikely to overtake Robinson. The best you can say is that it's his contract year so he's motivated for that, but isn't that the knock on most FA mistakes (I'm looking at you Albert) that teams make.

Get new guys in, give them a year of pure training, and special teams. 2015, let them get reps in the preseason games against the opponents starting defenses. and 2 years from now, when Roberts and Garcon and Djax all will at least be thinking about money, we have young guys who are ours for two more years, thinking about being our 1, 2, or 3.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

It's a fair question, and my best answer is this, over the past 3 years, name a WR on our team that you want to keep, and I can name at least a play or two that makes me go wow, and makes me think he's got something there:
for an example:
Garcon - he has multiple, but the Dallas game where he snagged a pass in the middle of the field and crossed all the way for a TD
Moss - obviously he has a ton
Robinson - the Dallas TD on Thanksgiving that sparked the team
Hankerson - nothin' maybe I just block it out, but I can't think of one play, where Hank made something out of nothing. What I mainly remember is a couple plays where he had the chance, and didn't make the play, or where with just a little more maybe he makes a game changing moment, but it never happened.<snip>

While I don't think your reasoning is a good basis for whether or not a WR "has something there" or should or shouldn't make a roster, you're not trying hard enough. Remember Hankerson's 68 yard catch-and-run TD against St. Louis? Remember his 54 yard TD grab against triple coverage in Cleveland? And these aren't the only big plays, either...

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

While I don't think your reasoning is a good basis for whether or not a WR "has something there" or should or shouldn't make a roster, you're not trying hard enough. Remember Hankerson's 68 yard catch-and-run TD against St. Louis? Remember his 54 yard TD grab against triple coverage in Cleveland? And these aren't the only big plays, either...

Those two are the ones that stand out to me. I think the biggest issue is his health. I'm not too concerned about his speed, because Jerry Rice wasn't fast. His hands have improved. I don't see him as being a #2, ever, but I think there's reason to believe that he could easily be a #3 or #4. In this case, I can see him beating out Moss.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

While I don't think your reasoning is a good basis for whether or not a WR "has something there" or should or shouldn't make a roster, you're not trying hard enough. Remember Hankerson's 68 yard catch-and-run TD against St. Louis? Remember his 54 yard TD grab against triple coverage in Cleveland? And these aren't the only big plays, either...

I really don't, and I am fully aware that I was pretty much done with him before the 2013 season, so I am pretty heavily biased at this point. Now that we have a solid 1-2-3 corps, I am mostly looking at how can we have capable replacements in place when 2016/17 rolls around. I don't see Hank or Robinson as that.

that said, I went and looked up and found this highlight clip from 2012:


watch that, and see how many times the first guy takes him down, or he goes down "easily", most catches he's open, but that's because he's not drawing major coverage. Even the two you cited
St Louis is the first one on the clip, he nearly dropped the ball and the lone defender on him, no over the top safety help, caught up to him and tripped him up
The Browns play(1:38-1:44) was probably the best on that whole video, still all the defense went for the ball, even tripped over themselves, had one been behind him, he would have been tagged down.

Watch the play at 1 minute, and instead of turning up field he goes out of bounds. 0:34 is kinda the same but much much more difficult. Could've been a real wow, but wasn't

Finally, I cite:0:27, 1:09, 1:16,1:23, 1:30, 1:34 he often crumples at first contact, and in this highlight reel I didn't see one play where he broke something out of nothing.

Look, he's a guy, he's not a scrub like DT, or unable to stay healthy like MK. I wish he had trade value, but not this draft season, and not next year when he's a UFA. Again, maybe it's worth holding onto him to get a compensatory pick next year. But that's all he is to me, a 2016 compensatory 5th or 6th round pick.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

I would like to see Williams and Gettis get a shot to make contributions.