All things offseason discussion part II

[Chico23231]

Think it's time to move on to the past. Rak is still on the team, let's let him put it on the field and after the season we can see where the chips fall. If he performs he we'll be paid.

[tshile]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

LaRon Landry, Carlos Rogers, and Antonio Pierce. As far as I can remember, the team did not feel they were worth what they were asking for. I'm not claiming any of them are all stars, but each of them was replaced with players worse than them.

The situation with each of those guys feels eerily similar to the current situation with Orakpo. Lukewarm fan response and local media outlets downplaying his contributions. It's pretty obvious when this team is preparing the fanbase for someone to be gone.

Landry wouldn't have a surgery the team wanted him to have. His health was an issue. It wasn't an issue of skill or anything like that. And when you look at how his career has gone since leaving...

Rogers wanted out.

I was a bit too young to really remember Pierce and the circumstances surrounding him leaving. If he fits the mold I'll trust you on it.

You've got 1 guy.

That's far from a trend of not paying guys...

You brought up Clark... they let him go not because they didn't want to pay him, but because they wanted to blow their wad on Adam Archuleta...

So, aside from your one guy... we're back to what I originally said...

...
over the last 10 years talent has walked for a variety of reasons, I don't recall any of them being because the team didn't think they were good enough.

I do recall it being because the player had a gripe with the fans, or the organization. Or because the player's wife had an issue with a certain mistress in the area. Or because the FO thought some top-dollar free agent that was past his prime would be a better person to pick up.

If you have more guys, please share. I've heard this argument before. I've yet to hear anyone actually put together a list of people over the last 15 years that actually match up to Orakpo's situation... where the FO and the player genuinely like each other, there are no off the field issues, the player just wants too much money and the FO is (so far) refusing to give it (though reluctant is probably the better way to word it, we did franchise him...)

The biggest criticism of Snyder over the last 15 years is that he *pays the wrong players too much money* often to the detriment of actually building a solid team.

In fact... the only good thing anyone could ever say about Snyder was that he was willing to throw his money around in an attempt to bring in talent. The talent evaluation was suspect at best, the contract decisions were harmful in the long run. But at least he'd throw his money around.

Originally Posted by Southpaw

If the new business model is not paying anyone, good luck attracting or holding on to talent.

That's not what anyone has said.

In fact, majority of fans from what I can tell want to keep Orakpo... they just want to pay a few less dollars to do so. Ie: pay him more appropriate to his level of expected contribution.

Ie: move away from the business model of the last 14 years that has completely sunk this organization.

[tshile]

All that being said, I hope Haslett lets Orakpo rush 95% of the snaps and he has a hell of a season and we pay him top dollar because he proves he's worth every penny.

If I was a betting man I'd take the other side.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by tshile

All that being said, I hope Haslett lets Orakpo rush 95% of the snaps and he has a hell of a season and we pay him top dollar because he proves he's worth every penny.

If I was a betting man I'd take the other side.

If I'm on offense and I know a player like Orakpo is rushing the QB 95% of the time and not playing the run ,I will game plan for it .

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Giantone

If I'm on offense and I know a player like Orakpo is rushing the QB 95% of the time and not playing the run ,I will game plan for it .

Im pretty sure he means let Rak rush on 95% of the pass plays. As it was last year, he only rushed on about 60-65% of them and dropped into pass coverage the rest. No one has said players shouldnt play the run.

[tshile]

yeah I don't want him to not play his role... but the narrative from the defense, the coaching staff, and even griffin was that mike shannahan held everyone back... specifically to orakpo - that he wasn't allowed to rush.

so if this whole time the issue has been that he's been held back... let's see what happens when he's 'allowed' to rush the passer...

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by tshile

yeah I don't want him to not play his role... but the narrative from the defense, the coaching staff, and even griffin was that mike shannahan held everyone back... specifically to orakpo - that he wasn't allowed to rush.
.

I still haven't seen that said by anyone yet ,people here have suggested it but still haven't heard anyone from the team last year .

[CrustyRedskin]

Everyone wants Rak and Kerrigan to be nfl sack leaders. That's hard to do when your ass is losing. Start winning 10+ games a year and get some nice comfy leads in the second half of a few games and see what happens. Ex JJ Watts. 2013-14.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I still haven't seen that said by anyone yet ,people here have suggested it but still haven't heard anyone from the team last year .

So a team official has to provide the stats for it to be true?

Or maybe you just don't come around enough to have seen the million times these stats have been posted.

[tshile]

Originally Posted by CrustyRedskin

Everyone wants Rak and Kerrigan to be nfl sack leaders. That's hard to do when your ass is losing. Start winning 10+ games a year and get some nice comfy leads in the second half of a few games and see what happens. Ex JJ Watts. 2013-14.

I like you're thinking

A healthy griffin and an offense putting up 30+ points a game on average will do wonders for our defense in terms of sacks and turnovers

[KI Skins Fan]

I just read a WAPO article which pointed out that the editors of the various NFL preview magazines think that the Redskins are one of if not the worst team in the NFL.

I don't think we're nearly that bad. In fact, I think we could win our division this season.

Nevertheless, this has made me wonder if I am indeed wearing burgundy-colored glasses. Am I nuts to think that we have improved and that RGIII can take the next step and become the leader of one of the best offenses in the league?

Also, I wonder if we, as Redskins fans, chronically overestimate our team. Surely, we won't have a repeat of last season's horror show, will we? Now I'm starting to become concerned.

What's your view of these magazine editor's predictions and our ability to see our team for what it is?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I just read a WAPO article which pointed out that the editors of the various NFL preview magazines think that the Redskins are one of if not the worst team in the NFL.

I don't think we're nearly that bad. In fact, I think we could win our division this season.

Nevertheless, this has made me wonder if I am indeed wearing burgundy-colored glasses. Am I nuts to think that we have improved and that RGIII can take the next step and become the leader of one of the best offenses in the league?

Also, I wonder if we, as Redskins fans, chronically overestimate our team. Surely, we won't have a repeat of last season's horror show, will we? Now I'm starting to become concerned.

What's your view of these magazine editor's predictions and our ability to see our team for what it is?

I enjoy preview magazine season but they hold very little predictive value or insight. The national detached narrative for the Redskins is easy based on last season. Griffin is still injured/difficult. Rookie head coach replacing a 'legend'. Terrible defense that didn't bring in any names. Desean Jackson is another 'typical Redskins move'.

They don't actually have anyone with direct insight to the team for the most part so they won't have any clue on how Griffin's offseason has been or the change in the team from Shanahan to Gruden.

As fans we will always be more optimistic than the national scribes and certainly have more insight than most preview publications who either hire freelancers on the cheap or have someone do multiple teams so there's no way they will be able to write anything of relevance or value.

Don't worry, they'll be singing a different tune when the results on the field are different.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I just read a WAPO article which pointed out that the editors of the various NFL preview magazines think that the Redskins are one of if not the worst team in the NFL.

I don't think we're nearly that bad. In fact, I think we could win our division this season.

Nevertheless, this has made me wonder if I am indeed wearing burgundy-colored glasses. Am I nuts to think that we have improved and that RGIII can take the next step and become the leader of one of the best offenses in the league?

Also, I wonder if we, as Redskins fans, chronically overestimate our team. Surely, we won't have a repeat of last season's horror show, will we? Now I'm starting to become concerned.

What's your view of these magazine editor's predictions and our ability to see our team for what it is?

I think we do chronically overestimate the team. We're fans; it's our job to be too enthused.

But those preseason mags typically aren't worth the paper that they are printed on. Every year teams go worst-to-first and vice versa, making July's preseason magazine a joke by December.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by CrustyRedskin

Everyone wants Rak and Kerrigan to be nfl sack leaders. That's hard to do when your ass is losing. Start winning 10+ games a year and get some nice comfy leads in the second half of a few games and see what happens. Ex JJ Watts. 2013-14.

JJ Watt still had 10.5 sacks this year. He is a beast no matter who he plays for. There are plenty of players that rack up sacks even on bad teams. Like Robert Quinn or Mario Williams.

Orakpo and Kerrigan have to produce. There are no more excuses this year.

[MTK]

^ Again I'll keep going back to opportunities. Those guys simply rush the passer more.