What would it take?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

we will just disagree.

And when you mention tax money wasted, of course it is. Look at the growth of government...We def need less government at every level...Federal, State, and local.

Fair enough.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Just a random note/thought: I just really dislike him as a person. Every tweet, every appointment, it just blows my mind. He comes across like a child and for acting tough, he seems like a giant pussy who just can't let shit go. Maybe one day things will settle down and he'll actually do some things where I'm like, "Wow, good for him."

If he doesn't change personally, I'll still be truly embarrassed this "man" represents me and my country. It's appalling. I don't need a boy scout, but I need someone who at least inspires SOME kind of confidence and carries themselves with a touch of dignity. Nothing he has done in his past and has done so far inspire even a shred of it for me. Sigh.

EDIT: I do wonder if anyone who voted for him is OK with the Bannon appointment. He's had some TRUE head-scratchers, but this one is just bananas to me. There are a lot of unqualified people in his cabinet, but Bannon is a TRUE piece of shit. Human garbage.

ANOTHER EDIT: Forgot to add this. Sad!

[mooby]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Just a random note/thought: I just really dislike him as a person. Every tweet, every appointment, it just blows my mind. He comes across like a child and for acting tough, he seems like a giant pussy who just can't let shit go. Maybe one day things will settle down and he'll actually do some things where I'm like, "Wow, good for him."

If he doesn't change personally, I'll still be truly embarrassed this "man" represents me and my country. It's appalling. I don't need a boy scout, but I need someone who at least inspires SOME kind of confidence and carries themselves with a touch of dignity. Nothing he has done in his past and has done so far inspire even a shred of it for me. Sigh.

EDIT: I do wonder if anyone who voted for him is OK with the Bannon appointment. He's had some TRUE head-scratchers, but this one is just bananas to me. There are a lot of unqualified people in his cabinet, but Bannon is a TRUE piece of shit. Human garbage.

ANOTHER EDIT: Forgot to add this. Sad!

I am in complete agreement. His hitlist changes every week. Right now it's Nordstrom, before it was the media. Next week it'll be that vet organization that called him out with the commercial during his favorite morning show. Imagine if Rosie O'Donnell plays Steve Bannon on SNL, he'll mount the most vicious Twitter campaign ever seen out of the presidential account.

[CRedskinsRule]

GOP Satisfaction With US Direction Soars, Democrats' Drops | Gallup

not really a shocking view, but I think the graph below is striking:


Overall the country is as satisfied with Trump as they were with Obama, but now the Democrats get to be the dissatisfied group.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Several points.
1) seriously - why doesn't Trump fix the state of the rest of the world?

2) I agree our legal immigration ought to be simplified and expanded - in other words the Statue of Liberty quote ought to be exemplified by our immigration policies, not by immigrants breaking our laws to get into the country.

3) Even with a liberalized immigration policy you can't offer enough legal immigration to solve the problem by itself.

4) Walls work but it's not the end all be all solution. The fact of the matter is that even in this day and age, walls/fences/security structures work.

We don't build prisons without walls and fences because the bad guys will just find another way.

Most people put a fence around the property line, not because it's an end all solution, but because you define the line.

You say people will find other ways, and while that's true, you still block off vast amounts of avenues simply with a wall that has basic security enhancements - motion sensor, ground radar, and cameras.

bottomline, no one solution is going to solve the problems at our southern border, but an effective wall, better use of technology, and an appropriate immigration policy would go a long way to reducing the issue.

Sorry for ignoring this. As for your points, I agree we should fix the US before we go about trying to save the rest of the world. I also agree there is no perfect solution to immigration, but I think we already do a good job of vetting the ones we allow in. Perhaps there should be a separate program for families that want to work hard, offer good skills, and make a fair living while paying taxes? Idk how you go about implementing that but I feel that the honest, hardworking illegal immigrants would much prefer to be legal rather than worry about being deported every time they go out in public. Obviously the criminal element doesn't care, and those are the ones that should be locked up before being deported.

As for your wall, I want to look at it from another perspective. I am at work atm and don't have access to a lot of sites, so I can't verify right now, but I would be happy to track down the source if necessary (I will admit I got it from FB). The article mentioned that after the legal battles that will result from eminent domain claims it might be another 3 1/2 years before construction would start, and construction is estimated at another 3 1/2 years after it does start. So you might be looking at a partially built wall by the time the next presidential election rolls around, and if Trump loses you are almost guaranteed the next President would either alter or eliminate the idea entirely depending on the financial state of the US. Do you really want to commit to it knowing there's a 50/50 chance it doesn't get finished? That would be a lot of taxpayer money waste if it did happen.

[CRedskinsRule]

We spent 8years on ObamaCare, which basically was opposed by about half the country (not arguing the exact numbers) and now a new administration is going to do it's best to repeal it. We had a pipeline running half across the country that Pres Obama was willing to let sit as a waste of metal, we built a bridge just for the sake of having a bridge. I don't know about how much will get stuck in eminent domain questions, but honestly, if we put more effort to make it work, then bicker about it, i believe we certainly could build it and be done within 6 years.

Like I said I don't know eminent domain ins and outs, but suppose you build it, and as a land owner your choice is, either fight the government's right to build it, and have your land be one of the prime locations for any illegal traffic that wants to cross into the US, or agree to the eminent domain request, and have a safer southern end to your property. Yes it's bully pulpit type request of use, but most land owners, in my mind are going to go with a "free" border on their land, rather than become an open invite to criminals.
Maybe it will be less impactful than not, but a couple things I think can be said clearly and those are:
1) coupled with better border enforcement/immigration policy it would be an added deterrent
2) if it takes 3 years to be built, that would be good hardworking jobs for US citizens.
3) done right, it could be a physical testament to US abilities, like the Panama Canal.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Overall the country is as satisfied with Trump as they were with Obama, but now the Democrats get to be the dissatisfied group.

No,poll or no poll.It's not even close.If you honestly think this country is the same now as when Obama was President and the the country is going through the same things ,then there is just no hope for you.It's not Democrats don't you get that,it's everyone but Trump supporters.Republicans are as pissed off as other groups but more and more republicans are coming out and complaining about Trump ,his people and his polocies.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Giantone

No,poll or no poll.It's not even close.If you honestly think this country is the same now as when Obama was President and the the country is going through the same things ,then there is just no hope for you.It's not Democrats don't you get that,it's everyone but Trump supporters.Republicans are as pissed off as other groups but more and more republicans are coming out and complaining about Trump ,his people and his polocies.

We will see. I was just saying that the Gallup poll just out showed something I thought was interesting in the extreme flip in sentiment between rep and dems.

Its been less then one month and so far all he has been doing is checking off the things he promised and spoke about in the campaign. I do think political denizens on both sides didn't really believe he would do what he campaigned to do, but his voters/supporters see him working at it even as the establishment drags its collective feet.

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[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

We will see. I was just saying that the Gallup poll just out showed something I thought was interesting in the extreme flip in sentiment between rep and dems.

..... I do think political denizens on both sides didn't really believe he would do what he campaigned to do, but his voters/supporters see him working at it even as the establishment drags its collective feet.

I believed it and what I believed is happening.Donald Trump is taking down this nation with his ignorance.The "establishment"is not dragging it's feet ,it's trying to save the country from collapsing in spite of Trump.

[CRedskinsRule]

Whar does "Taking it down" mean to you?

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[TheMalcolmConnection]

If somehow a super-villian comes to this Earth and says, "I'm going kill all your first born." and he does it, I guess I'd have to give him credit for doing what he said.

Drumpf is doing what he said he would do, my problem is the stuff he IS doing are his half-baked ideas.

1) Repeal Obamacare? Sure, HAVE A FUCKING PLAN. Regardless of the positives and negatives, this country needed some kind of system. As imperfect as it is, it was a start. He started trying to chip away at it with zero plan and people who were benefiting by it might suffer. That's bad.

2) Muslim ban. I remember when he said, "Let's stop all these Muslims from coming in until we can figure out what's going on." Something to that effect. Another half-baked idea. You want to do it? Fine. Be consistent. It's just a random smattering of countries he chose. Roll-out was a mess. I think vetting is perfectly fine, but it's like he's just throwing shit at the wall and saying, "Look! I'm doing it!"

3) The wall. I haven't seen any plans or heard a proposed budget, but this is the most ridiculous idea of them all. I'm 100% behind border security. Maybe once I hear the actual "plan" I might change my mind, but I'm looking at the proposed budget and this seems like the biggest waste of money in tax-payer history. Again, likely to be ineffective. Maybe I just have this giant concrete eye-sore in my mind and I will admit if I'm wrong (I'm obviously no engineer), but I just don't see how this would work. Jobs? I love jobs! You could give people jobs rolling the proverbial rock up the hill all day, and they could say, "Hey! We got a job though." In the end, I still think it's a waste of time, money, and more when we could be spending that budget on a lot more problems in this country.

Our infrastructure is aging and is awful. If Drumpf said he would put that money into that, I'd be 100% behind him.

Just because he's doing what he says doesn't mean they're good ideas in the first place.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

...
Just because he's doing what he says doesn't mean they're good ideas in the first place.

Fair enough that you don't like him or the ideas, but they are what he ran on, what won states that had gone for democrats for the last couple decades, and what he is going to do.

By the way, he did say he was going to invest in the infrastructure, and if he's keeping the rest of his campaign promises instead of playing nice with the politicos then I would expect him to keep that one too, but the democrats will have to actually play ball because the republicans will fight him on that one.

[MTK]

Immigration and border security are complex issues that demand more complex solutions than building a wall or banning certain people from coming here.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by MTK

Immigration and border security are complex issues that demand more complex solutions than building a wall or banning certain people from coming here.

Agreed and yet both actions can easily be a part of the more complex solution instead of making a false suggestion that Trump is claiming either one of those are a magic bullet solution.

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[MTK]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Agreed and yet both actions can easily be a part of the more complex solution instead of making a false suggestion that Trump is claiming either one of those are a magic bullet solution.

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Problem is he's full of magic bullet solutions, I alone can fix things, I'll make us great again, etc. His words. It's hard to imagine there's much of a long term vision in any of his plans. I think he just wants to slap band-aids on everything, claim victory, and bask in the credit he feels he deserves.