Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I see your point. I just see San Diego having all the bargaining chips on any trade and they could make it very costly for any team to get Jackson. Now, I feel better with a guy like Bruce Allen in charge, as he has obviously done a good job with compensation in trades. But unless Jackson becomes a huge headache for San Diego, I don't see them trading him for cheap.

Oki I agree with your assesment as to why we could use VJ, but like Ruhskins I think the price is to high for him and SD holds all the leverage. We could wait about 7 months and try to get him in FA next offseason. If he goes else where than so be it.

In previous posts I have stated that the Chargers are asking to much for him in a trade and I don't value him as high as Brandon Marshal nor as low as Santonio Holmes, the compensation should be around the middle either a 3rd or 4th round pick. That is the most i would part with to get him.

I keep waivering on either being behind bringing him in and not. At this point with so many reasons why i would not, I think I would pass. There is just to much baggage that comes with him and the big money contract that will come with aquiring him.

We should pass on the big price tag this guy will bring this year as far as compensation and contract. Have patience and wait for FA and the draft next year to deal with the WR position.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

We have to stop being scared of breaking tradition. Just because our best 3 receivers are two tight ends and a receiver instead of two receivers and a tight end doesn't mean we can't be successful. I mean think about it, everyone is scared of Joey Galloway being the number 2 receiver when in reality he's looking at being the number 4 passing option. The Chargers last year had a Tight End as their number one receiver. And do I need to bring up the Dick Vermil lead Chiefs again and how their offense was structured.

Look at the facts.

- We have with the help of a miracle pretty much fixed the O-Line in one offseason.

- We have a brilliant offensive braintrust

- We have a franchise QB

- We have three legitimate passing options.

The only question mark is the running backs and I'm pretty sure we won't have to worry about them.

Ah, cooler heads prevail....

But I certainly see the other point...if your 4th option is a wideout...that means, we probably aren't going to successfully stretch the field to open up the intermediate areas for the TE's.

2 TE's can work...but you would be flooding the intermediate zones...there is a ton of traffic in there with LB's....pulling safetys up compounds the problem. The way to get around that is use a TON of TE motion to commit the secondary to improper positions pre-snap to create more separation. There is no way we want a safety covering a TE if we can help it. We need TE's to be covered by LB's and ends exclusively. Remember...there are usually 4-5 db's....and our TE's can usually only beat one of them (strong safety)...so outside of zone defense, there will be 3-4 defensive backs that could easily handle our TE's....that means ideally...that we need 1 WR to attract double coverage and another to take single coverage...that would isolate the TE(s) on the strong safety or LBs.

By definition, ANY WR commands a CB of some sort...but does Santana contstantly demand double coverage?...NO. So....my long point is this.
I see our base package as 2 WR, 2 TE set, with most of the action going to Santana deep or Cooley over the LB's and in front of the strong safety.

Really, our bread and butter is going to be the matchup with the 2nd best safety with our TE's. They could easily deal with us with the nickle...in that case, we'd hopefully pound the rock up the gut.

The real deal is this, Galloway is merely a deep threat decoy..nothing more...since we need 2 deep threats to open up the middle of the field for TE's...I say, his only competition for that role is D Thomas due to speed. The last thing this team needs is another mid range big target with a lack of burst....we usually call those guys pass catching TE's.

So...what is mostly needed in the passing game at this point?...speed, speed and speed....deep play action outside to legit deep threats...can that be a smaller guy? sure....older guy with speed?....why not....as long as he pulls a CB and occasionally can draw in a safety....it doesn't matter if he catches squat....kinda like a NT's job....we will see how the 2 TE set emerges.

The only other thing we lack is the short passing game....perhaps Portis can do that, or ....should I say it?....Brian Westbrook.

[skinsfaninok]

Agree that we shouldn't give up a 1st but a 2nd I think we should. Hey I think we can win this division without Jackson, it would make it a lil easier with him though.

[skinsnut]

I doubt we go after this guy....all I can say is watch the speed WR's on the roster...those are the ones that will stay (assuming they can catch)

[GridIron26]

How do you know Galloway lost his speed? We haven't even seen him play yet.. From the comments regarding his plays in the camp - it sounds like he hasn't lost a step.. He's still crispy at routes and still have some speed.. Beside we have Moss, Thomas, Kelly (he isn't that fast but he has the size to beat opponent in jump ball), and maybe even Austin or Banks or Armstrong or whoever who all could go deep.. The main point is we do NOT have the luxury of trading away our high picks, only because we have positions that needs to be filled with young players..

I'm just glad Vinny isn't with us anymore, or otherwise we probably would already have traded for VJ - assuming Chargers are willing to apart from him..

[CultBrennan59]

Who wants this guy when we could have Joey 'Graybeard' Galloway as our starter!

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Who wants this guy when we could have Joey 'Graybeard' Galloway as our starter!

I really think graybeard is giving him too much credit. at 138 years old he is way past grey. This is more like it...

[IMG][/IMG]

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Ah, cooler heads prevail....

But I certainly see the other point...if your 4th option is a wideout...that means, we probably aren't going to successfully stretch the field to open up the intermediate areas for the TE's.

2 TE's can work...but you would be flooding the intermediate zones...there is a ton of traffic in there with LB's....pulling safetys up compounds the problem. The way to get around that is use a TON of TE motion to commit the secondary to improper positions pre-snap to create more separation. There is no way we want a safety covering a TE if we can help it. We need TE's to be covered by LB's and ends exclusively. Remember...there are usually 4-5 db's....and our TE's can usually only beat one of them (strong safety)...so outside of zone defense, there will be 3-4 defensive backs that could easily handle our TE's....that means ideally...that we need 1 WR to attract double coverage and another to take single coverage...that would isolate the TE(s) on the strong safety or LBs.

By definition, ANY WR commands a CB of some sort...but does Santana contstantly demand double coverage?...NO. So....my long point is this.
I see our base package as 2 WR, 2 TE set, with most of the action going to Santana deep or Cooley over the LB's and in front of the strong safety.

Really, our bread and butter is going to be the matchup with the 2nd best safety with our TE's. They could easily deal with us with the nickle...in that case, we'd hopefully pound the rock up the gut.

The real deal is this, Galloway is merely a deep threat decoy..nothing more...since we need 2 deep threats to open up the middle of the field for TE's...I say, his only competition for that role is D Thomas due to speed. The last thing this team needs is another mid range big target with a lack of burst....we usually call those guys pass catching TE's.

So...what is mostly needed in the passing game at this point?...speed, speed and speed....deep play action outside to legit deep threats...can that be a smaller guy? sure....older guy with speed?....why not....as long as he pulls a CB and occasionally can draw in a safety....it doesn't matter if he catches squat....kinda like a NT's job....we will see how the 2 TE set emerges.

The only other thing we lack is the short passing game....perhaps Portis can do that, or ....should I say it?....Brian Westbrook.

Well one things for sure, in order to get the maximum benefit out of this system we need the running game to work, which as I said before won't be a problem. You say that using two tight ends will result in the intermediate zones being clogged up, but I think we have a different vision of how to utilize our Tight Ends.

I personally envision both Davis and Cooley splitting time in the Dallas Clark role. As most of you already know Dallas Clark got over a 1,000 yards this season working from the slot. I picture our Tight Ends running routes that you usually have reserved for receivers and the beautiful thing is that they're to fast and agile to be covered by linebackers and to big to be covered by corners. On top of that a chip block from a guy in the slot won't be taken for granted by linebackers as instead of a scrawny receiver they'll have to deal with the likes of Davis and Cooley.

Personally I don't know if anyone realizes this but the Colts only have two receiving threats that you could place on any team in the NFL. Put Anthony Gonzalez and Piere Garcon on the Browns, Panthers, Raiders, Buc's, and watch their numbers change. If they had been second round picks with us for the past two years they would be in similar situations as those seen in Kelly and Thomas.

Someone will emerge as a solid number 2, non-tight end, wideout. Now weather it be Williams, Thomas, or a healthy Galloway I don't know. I personally hope it's Austin. However the great thing about having a top flight QB is suddenly you find you have guys that can catch the ball and be productive in the passing game.

[tryfuhl]

let VJ wait till his contract is out/we know what's happening next year

[ethat001]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

let VJ wait till his contract is out/we know what's happening next year

Sure, but VJ and McNabb would be one year older. I hope he becomes toxic over there so they want to get rid of him, & his trade value goes down. Doubt it.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Well one things for sure, in order to get the maximum benefit out of this system we need the running game to work, which as I said before won't be a problem. You say that using two tight ends will result in the intermediate zones being clogged up, but I think we have a different vision of how to utilize our Tight Ends.

I personally envision both Davis and Cooley splitting time in the Dallas Clark role. As most of you already know Dallas Clark got over a 1,000 yards this season working from the slot. I picture our Tight Ends running routes that you usually have reserved for receivers and the beautiful thing is that they're to fast and agile to be covered by linebackers and to big to be covered by corners. On top of that a chip block from a guy in the slot won't be taken for granted by linebackers as instead of a scrawny receiver they'll have to deal with the likes of Davis and Cooley.

Personally I don't know if anyone realizes this but the Colts only have two receiving threats that you could place on any team in the NFL. Put Anthony Gonzalez and Piere Garcon on the Browns, Panthers, Raiders, Buc's, and watch their numbers change. If they had been second round picks with us for the past two years they would be in similar situations as those seen in Kelly and Thomas.

Someone will emerge as a solid number 2, non-tight end, wideout. Now weather it be Williams, Thomas, or a healthy Galloway I don't know. I personally hope it's Austin. However the great thing about having a top flight QB is suddenly you find you have guys that can catch the ball and be productive in the passing game.

I see Davis in the slot...I believe he is faster...the D may consider covering the slot guy with the free safety deeper....which means the real mismatch is on the other side with Cooley...they can either keep him in to block or send him out to match up against a LB or strong safety..both are good matchups....especially if he is on Moss' side of the field...both would be 1 on one in most cases. I see Davis' roll and the #2 to draw coverage away from Cooley so he has a mismatch. I don't know about how realistic we can be regarding a deep threat at this point...and our short passing game is a bit suspect...I see a ton of run game to free up play action deep...that is probably the only way we get stronger separation with the wideouts we have.
We can pass intermediate all day if we have a deep threat of any kind.

I would rank our teams offense capability in this order
1. intermediate pass game (mostly TEs)
2. run game
3. short pass game (including quick screens to WR and passes to RBs)
4. deep pass game (WRs)

Of course, this is sight unseen and based on current personnel only...we shall see tonight.

We better run well because this team may struggle (as is normal) with 3rd and +8 yards initially unless a legit #2 WR emerges.

The key word is "separation"...I haven't seen it in years here.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

You are right Skins the last time we saw seperation was in 2005 with Santana Moss. Since then we have not had that kind of weapon on offense.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Well one things for sure, in order to get the maximum benefit out of this system we need the running game to work, which as I said before won't be a problem. You say that using two tight ends will result in the intermediate zones being clogged up, but I think we have a different vision of how to utilize our Tight Ends.

I personally envision both Davis and Cooley splitting time in the Dallas Clark role. As most of you already know Dallas Clark got over a 1,000 yards this season working from the slot. I picture our Tight Ends running routes that you usually have reserved for receivers and the beautiful thing is that they're to fast and agile to be covered by linebackers and to big to be covered by corners. On top of that a chip block from a guy in the slot won't be taken for granted by linebackers as instead of a scrawny receiver they'll have to deal with the likes of Davis and Cooley.

Personally I don't know if anyone realizes this but the Colts only have two receiving threats that you could place on any team in the NFL. Put Anthony Gonzalez and Piere Garcon on the Browns, Panthers, Raiders, Buc's, and watch their numbers change. If they had been second round picks with us for the past two years they would be in similar situations as those seen in Kelly and Thomas.

Someone will emerge as a solid number 2, non-tight end, wideout. Now weather it be Williams, Thomas, or a healthy Galloway I don't know. I personally hope it's Austin. However the great thing about having a top flight QB is suddenly you find you have guys that can catch the ball and be productive in the passing game.

The biggest problem really isn't Galloway, as certainly he's no worse a no. 2 receiver than David Patten was on the 2005 team.

It's that if we're relying on Moss to be one of the "big" three receiving targets, he needs to play like we haven't seen him play in five years. The whole Vincent Jackson thing isn't about replacing Joey Galloway, it's about replacing Santana Moss, and putting him in the Galloway role.