ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

If you don't agree fine but don't cry outrage when someone (Warren Moon) is offended.
How would you feel if someone told you how to feel?

Moon wasn't offended. He knew this isn't a racial issue, but wanted to use this as leverage for his client. He had no basis whatsoever to claim racism.

Originally Posted by 30gut

Fact is Moon has been discriminated against because of his race.
If he senses the same thing to is happening to Newton he has every right to express that..

Oh, so because he's been discriminated against at somepoint in his life, it gives him the right to basically call somebody a racist before he knows the facts?

Jesse Jackson played that race card back during the Duke Lacrosse rape trial, pandered to the public, and offered to pay for this poor girl's tuition only to find out later that it was all a huge lie. It's amazing what finding out the facts will do before you open your big mouth about a issue concerning racism. I'm sure Jesse has experienced discrimination, but did it give him the right to crucify those college boys all because it was a racial issue in his mind? That shit doesn't fly with me, and pretty much why I'll never take Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton serious at all. (and now Moon)

Originally Posted by 30gut

Lets not confuse the issue here Norwicki's profile was personal and unprofessional and Warren Moon felt it was racial driven.

How do you know it's personal? You are claiming to know his intentions on the write up. Do you? Have you read all his reports on all his analysis on players? It seems like this isn't anything of the norm for him. If you listen to that podcast I posted a page or so back (Todd McShay), he even said he's heard similar things AND that he believed that he pretty much put the words on paper that were quoted to him. McShay said his only surprise about the review was that he used the actual words from those people, and that most of them try to be polite about it or paraphrase it another way.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Moon wasn't offended(a). He knew this isn't a racial issue (b), but wanted to use this as leverage for his client (c). He had no basis whatsoever to claim racism.

I don't pretend to know how Moon felt like you do in this quote.

I know Moon was offended because he said he was offended.

To claim that Moon wasn't offended(a) and that he knew this wasn't a race issue(b) is......absurd and it lets me know I would be wasting my time responding to your post any further.

HTTR

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I don't pretend to know how Moon felt like you do in this quote.

I know Moon was offended because he said he was offended.

To claim that Moon wasn't offended(a) and that he knew this wasn't a race issue(b) is......absurd and it lets me know I would be wasting my time responding to your post any further.

HTTR

You know Moon was offended because he said he was offended? Well that settles it I guess. I guess people don't lie or bullshit the public. Nope. All of those politicians up in DC are telling you the god honest truth before and after the elections. It's not like he's not getting paid by Cam Newton one bit...oh wait. Furthermore, did Moon actually even say he was personally offended? I must have missed that from the press clippings.


Besides, explain to me how he was offended by Cam Newton's draft analysis? I did read the profile correct and it did say Cam Newton and not Warren Moon? Right? Did that review criticize all black quarterbacks? Did he somehow make a connection that Cam wouldn't be good because of his skin color?

So if somebody writes something bad about you, I can then proclaim to be offended?...lol It's that how it works now? So, can I sue people when I see them write libel and offensive things about others, even though it doesn't pertain to me? Is Moon related to him? BFFs with him? In love with him? What would cause Warren Moon to be offended by a guy he barely knows except the fact he's been hired to consult him? I believe Moon was offended about as much as OJ when he said he was out looking for the real killers of his wife.

The only way Moon doesn't know this wasn't about race if he's just a absolute dumbass. Now, Moon doesn't strike me as some dummy so I'll wager good money he in fact knows this isn't about race or he likes to make claims about shit he doesn't know the facts on, which makes him a dumbass. It's either one or the other.

edit:

[MTK]

Just saying there's a history of these scouting reports touching on personality traits, it's not something unique or new with Newton's report.

They may be harsh but it's part of the total picture that teams look at before investing a ton of loot in these kids. There are a lot of sources that agree with the report on Newton too.

If I'm a GM ready to give a kid millions of dollars, I'd want to know every single piece of info on that kid, good and bad.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Just saying there's a history of these scouting reports touching on personality traits, it's not something unique or new with Newton's report.

They may be harsh but it's part of the total picture that teams look at before investing a ton of loot in these kids. There are a lot of sources that agree with the report on Newton too.

If I'm a GM ready to give a kid millions of dollars, I'd want to know every single piece of info on that kid, good and bad.

Preach. Fact is most scouting reports by team scouts can and do get as specific as this one, except generally the public doesn't get hold of them.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Just saying there's a history of these scouting reports touching on personality traits, it's not something unique or new with Newton's report.

They may be harsh but it's part of the total picture that teams look at before investing a ton of loot in these kids. There are a lot of sources that agree with the report on Newton too.

If I'm a GM ready to give a kid millions of dollars, I'd want to know every single piece of info on that kid, good and bad.

The scouting indusrty has been around forever and imo the personal aspects are both the most important and the most difficult for fans to know.

I can't imagine any actual former scouts (btw Narwocki is a media scout like McShay or Kiper and to my knowledge has never been an actual scout) would ever write public report of that nature, especially based on 2nd hand opinion. (We all know full well that right about now a team GMs/scouts/official will say anything short of out right lies about their opinions of the prospects)

Behind closed doors different people are gonna have different views of prospects based on personality which by its very nature is subjective.

You can allude to a players off the field concerns or personality concerns in a professional manner without becoming personal.

Imo its a sad commentary on the nature and general direction of media at large.

But, kudos to Nolan I bet PFW has never received this many hits.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 30gut

The scouting indusrty has been around forever and imo the personal aspects are both the most important and the most difficult for fans to know.

I can't imagine any actual former scouts (btw Narwocki is a media scout like McShay or Kiper and to my knowledge has never been an actual scout) would ever write public report of that nature, especially based on 2nd hand opinion. (We all know full well that right about now a team GMs/scouts/official will say anything short of out right lies about their opinions of the prospects)

Behind closed doors different people are gonna have different views of prospects based on personality which by its very nature is subjective.

You can allude to a players off the field concerns or personality concerns in a professional manner without becoming personal.

Imo its a sad commentary on the nature and general direction of media at large.

But, kudos to Nolan I bet PFW has never received this many hits.

Well, that's your interpretation of it. I don't think it's personal, it's business. If Newton can't handle it he's probably not going to be able to handle a lot of things at the next level.

Funny, I don't remember the public outrage last year when these things were said about Clausen:

Has a sense of entitlement, having attended private schools, worked with private QB coaches and being sheltered by his family, who bought a house on campus so his brothers had a place to stay for every game. Arrogant-can come off as having all the answers and struggle to win a locker room. Still immature. Comes across as overly staged, scripted and disingenuous in interviews and does not have the type of presence desired in the face of a franchise.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Well, that's your interpretation of it. I don't think it's personal, it's business. If Newton can't handle it he's probably not going to be able to handle a lot of things at the next level.

Its the business of drumming up sales through saying something out of bounds.

And how are you gonna drag Newton into this?

"If Newton can't handle it" really?

How are you gonna spin this into Newton can't handle it?

Funny, I don't remember the public outrage last year when these things were said about Clausen:

I didn't read the part about him having a 'fake smile'.

[MTK]

Ah so the fake smile part has you bent?

Perhaps that wasn't needed, but other than that it's really pretty similar to the report that Clausen had.

How am I gonna drag Newton into this? Well we are talking about his scouting report aren't we? And his advisor, Moon, is the one that was all irked and tossing out the race card. So I think it has something to do with Newton and his ability to handle criticism.

The race card was weak.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

How am I gonna drag Newton into this? Well we are talking about his scouting report aren't we? And his advisor, Moon, is the one that was all irked and tossing out the race card. So I think it has something to do with Newton and his ability to handle criticism.

Lol, that's weak.

If I say something to about you that offends Smootsmack does that mean that you are unable to handle criticism?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Lol, that's weak.

If I say something to about you that offends Smootsmack does that mean that you are unable to handle criticism?

So you're saying you think Newton is no way was bothered by this, and Moon was acting all alone in tossing out the race card?

Possible but I doubt it.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Ah so the fake smile part has you bent?

Perhaps that wasn't needed, but other than that it's really pretty similar to the report that Clausen had.

How am I gonna drag Newton into this? Well we are talking about his scouting report aren't we? And his advisor, Moon, is the one that was all irked and tossing out the race card. So I think it has something to do with Newton and his ability to handle criticism.

The race card was weak.

Ultimately teams have to make their own opinion on players and not depend on someone who barely interviewed a player and his acquaintances.

There is no race issue here. While I had some minor issues with the "fake smile" part and "always knows where the cameras are". I have to say I had more problems with the "Not Dependable" part.
I am a firm believer of a persons "actions speaks louder than words' or words of others about you. I think there is one major difference between the Clausen criticism and the recent Newton criticism". It was common knowledge even before Clausen's senior year started that there were locker room and leadership issues and that some of his teammates did not like him. I remember watching a ND game during Clausen's senior year and the TV commentators talked about it on national tv.
This is the first I am hearing about Newton having lost his locker room. Newton being described as not dependable player and, "Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable." seems to fly against all of his accomplishments and what has been said about him during his time at Auburn. Accomplishments on the field that Clausen does not bring to the table.
This thing is really a whole lot about nothing issue. When reviewing a player or employee and you have to come up with "positives" and "negatives", sometimes you can go over board about one minor thing so you don't have to spend extra time and work coming up with another talking point.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Ultimately teams have to make their own opinion on players and not depend on someone who barely interviewed a player and his acquaintances.

Teams take info from all types of sources into account. Former coaches, teammates, friends, family, teachers, etc. You don't have to personally interview someone in order to get a pretty good feel for someone.

In fact I'd bet teams put more stock into what acquaintances say about a guy vs. a personal interview where it's easy for a kid to be coached up as to what to say and how to act.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Teams take info from all types of sources into account. Former coaches, teammates, friends, family, teachers, etc. You don't have to personally interview someone in order to get a pretty good feel for someone.

In fact I'd bet teams put more stock into what acquaintances say about a guy vs. a personal interview where it's easy for a kid to be coached up as to what to say and how to act.

This must be true especially in terms of a Combine interview, rather than a team visit, as such interviews last only 15 minutes.

[SmootSmack]

Nolan Nawrocki isn't some schlub. He's a former Division 1 football player whose opinion has been extremely well received by many, if not all, NFL front offices. And he wasn't the one who put his report of Cam Newton online everywhere. And it's not his fault one of the first times the common fan is getting access to a full report on a player is this time.