Ongoing CBA discussions

[Ruhskins]

I don't think you have to completely take one side in here, I just feel like the owners are slightly guiltier than the players, and have less to lose (and they were making sure that they'd be taken care of with the TV deal insurance money...if I'm saying that correctly). In the end, the failure is from both sides, and the losers in my opinion are:

From the players side: your average to below average player that doesn't make Peyton Manning money.

From the owners side: the assistant coaches, trainers, and regular team staff.

Also screwed, any industry that profits from football. And finally the fans, but it is not like your average fan is losing money in this situation.

Still, tomorrow Jerry Jones and Peyton Manning will have millions in the bank. But your average 3rd stringer, a strength coach, and some secretary in a team is office is going to be sweating bullets not having any type of certainty about their jobs (and their ability to earn money).

[skinsfaninok]

First off NYSkins, Kanye West? Your crazy Lil Wayne is on another planet compared to kanye..

[skinsfaninok]

Most NFL fans are true to their organization, this is not like the NBA or MLB it's not a player sport. The Redskins for example aren't just a pro football team they are an brand also, players have the privilege to play a GAME for a living. Yes I understand they are very gifted And I'm not saying I can play pro football BUT 300,000 is damn good $ for only working 6 months folks period.

[CRedskinsRule]

Agreed Ruhskins.

Both sides simply played out their hands, and,in my opinion, tried to slight the other side rather than work together as reasonable and rational people might. When a federal mediator who has an 84% succes rate simply throws up his hands in dismay like Cohen did, you know either one or both parties just aren't interested in working it out.

And all those that you mentioned who are not the millionaire/billionaire manning/snyder people will see their livelihood and lives hurt.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

First off NYSkins, Kanye West? Your crazy Lil Wayne is on another planet compared to kanye..

Music is more then rapping with autotune.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Also nc_skins, let the players go to the cfl or ufl or open a new league see what revenues they pull in versus the nfl with replacement players with the tv contracts in place, the stadium leases signed and all the other parts that the ownership maintains. I am willing to bet that the players as a group won't be matching that 4billion dollar mark. While the NFL and established teams would.

I assure you, any market that arose out of the NFL destruction would hit those same figures if not more. Why? Because we the fans demand that type of entertainment, and another league (with the same current NFL players) could provide that same entertainment. (same rules..etc.) The only thing that would change is the letters NFL to (insert 3 letters of your choice). Why? Because TV would still pay that same figure to that league if fans wanted it. (and we would) Don't believe me? Try switching the NFL and UFL players. Would you continue to watch the Redskins? Probably not, and neither would I. Why? Because of the talent level drop off.

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Out of the 1700 players there are a handful that are true exceptionals, ie manning brees etc but for every manning the league would most likely find a brady in the udfa or fletcher or other man who might not have gotten the chance with the current rosters in place.

No, all 1696 NFL players are exceptional. Otherwise, they wouldn't be in the NFL. Remember, the NFL is the best of the best so if you aren't in that group, chances are you aren't one of the best. It's really that simple. Now, that changes annually with newer/fresher talent, but that number still stays the same. (1696)

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

As for the owners opting out, they followed an agreed upon point in the last cba. The players now have said they don't want to mediate or negotiate. They want to litigate. That is their choice. Both parties have led it to this point neither is a victim and neither deserves the benefit of the doubt.

That is not true, and I quite frankly don't even know where you came up with that nonsense. The owners have been denying the players union to see the books for 2 years now all the while claiming profit loss and telling them to "trust them". The NFLPA has no other recourse but to do litigation when the owners aren't willing to concede to that request. Nobody is going to negotiate off of "trust me" when it comes to money. Would you? Nope. Both parties haven't led to this. I showed you in detail how the owners have been preparing to opt out since they signed the last CBA in 2006. The players were fine with the current CBA, they are willing to go back to the current CBA. I think you are failing to realize that whole concept.

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

1) nflpa has decertified rather than mediate
2) after decertification smith continued to try and get 10 yrs of data under the false pretense of being a legitimate bargaining entity.
3) players have seen unparallelled salary growth in the last 10 years as the result of a solid advantage gained in the last cba
4) owners acted within their legal rights when they opted out, and both parties could have tried to mediate and solve this issue
5) tom cruise doesn't get 50% of a movie studios box receipt and pavarotti doesn't ask to see all the books at that opera house, only the box office take that he brings in and both pavarotti and the operahouse enjoy success with that arrangement

1) Wrong. They decertified after every last effort was exhausted. The owners have denied them access to the books for two years and still weren't going to show them the books even at this last deadline. Read the quote from the federal mediator below.

NFLPA decertifies, files antitrust suit against league - ESPN

"The parties have not achieved an overall agreement, nor have they been able to resolve the strongly held competing positions that separated them on core issues, mediator George Cohen said. "No useful purpose would be served by requesting the parties to continue the mediation process at this time."

2) as far as that Smith claim? What? Here is what Smith had to say.

"I would dare any one of you to pull out any economic indicator that would suggest that the National Football League is falling on hard times," NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith said. "The last 14 days, the National Football League has said, 'Trust us.' But when it came time for verification, they told us it was none of our business."

3) 1696 players splitting 4 billion compared to 32 people splitting 5 billion. Who's making out better?

4)Actually the owners didn't handle things legally hence Doty ruled that the NFL acted against the players when it negotiated its TV contract.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/sp...all/02nfl.html
They were trying to gain all the leverage when they opted out so they'd still get 4 billion even during the lockout. Also the players are within their legal rights to decertify after all attempts at negotiation have been exhausted. (see fed mediator's quote)

5) Tom Cruise gets a fee and most likely a percentage of the overall profits and dvd sales. I bet you they do indeed see the numbers on those profits. Also, Pavarotti didn't have to operate like that since he wasn't under a contract with one opera house. However, if he was and said opera house was making money hand over fist and asked him to reduce his pay, I imagine he would have or left. (as would any of us)

[NC_Skins]

speaking of winning, the real winners in all of this are the douchebag lawyers.
losers = everybody else

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

speaking of winning, the real winners in all of this are the douchebag lawyers.
losers = everybody else

This is the first thing you have said that I agree with 100%.

[Ruhskins]

Alright, t-minus 13 minutes until the end of football.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

12 minutes

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

12 minutes

3 minutes....

[CRedskinsRule]

So goodell is now making $1? Man that ain't fun!
Lockout has begun

[GusFrerotte]

TO be honest not all that disappointed if there is no football, the main reason being I don't see us being a contender, and second the NFL is probably the most overhyped "product" on the planet, along with the NBA. It seems the more money that gets involved the less valuable the product. I rather watch a handful of well oiled football machines than a bunch of mediocre teams that limp into the playoffs. Now with Indy about to go down the tubes, and New England probably next, we will be stuck watching the Steelers/ Ravens or heaven help us, the Jets in the SB for the next few years maybe. God awful boring football. Hopefully the Saints can get it together and become a juggernaut again. God I really do miss the 80's!!!!!!!

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Agreed Ruhskins.

Both sides simply played out their hands, and,in my opinion, tried to slight the other side rather than work together as reasonable and rational people might. When a federal mediator who has an 84% succes rate simply throws up his hands in dismay like Cohen did, you know either one or both parties just aren't interested in working it out.

And all those that you mentioned who are not the millionaire/billionaire manning/snyder people will see their livelihood and lives hurt.

League minimum is helluva lot better than anyobdy up here in Detroit is making working 40+ hours a week. As for those hotdog people, they will just work more concerts on Sundays. NFL.com will be experiencing some big time issues, but that doesn't affect too many Americans since the stuff is made in Asia anyway. As for the fans? THey almost deserve to be screwed. They have put themselves into a position to be taken for granted. Like I said in my previous post the more money that is made in the NFL seems to be directly inverted to the quality of the product put out on the field on most Sundays. Just sloppy ball being played, with the exceptions of only a small number of teams. Only team in the current NFL that could say touch the Cowboys or 49ers of the 90s is New England, and I am not sure if they could even hang. Sorry guys, I am just calling it as I see it. This explains why the NFL hype machine has been kicked into overdrive for the past decade, the lack of any real teams that are playing to the level they should be.

[SolidSnake84]

Holy Shit guys i didnt believe this would actually happen.

Millionaires vs Billionaires i guess. Now there is the lawsuit by Tom Brady, Manning, and Drew Brees against the owners. The players union has decertified, and in general all hell is breaking loose.

What happens next? can a court order lift the lockout as some have suggested? Does the NFL win the appeal? Is there going to be an absolute total work stoppage??