Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Better question: how many SBs did Elway appear in w/o Shanahan? And Shanahan w/o Elway?

...pretty obvious who was the bigger contributor to success in Denver.

I'll take wins over appearances any day. 2-0 is better than 2-4.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I don't pay attention to what the mainstream media (be it political, sports, or otherwise) says. Too much money, business, etc wrapped into anything associated with NBC, Fox, ESPN, NFLN. For instance, RG3 is to a very large degree a "brand" the NFL and all associated parties want to promote i.e. I would never expect "them" to point out plays getting blown up because the opposing defense read it before the ball was snapped.

What I would point to, are some pretty insightful folks around here (not talking about myself here) who have pointed out the really, really questionable play-calls, play-designs. I think I see more of them, that's all. And the fact is Mike and Kyle, couldn't do ANYTHING with the offense w/o Griffin.

My intuition is that we'd probably have a bit more intelligent discussion/debate here if the Shanny regime doubters didn't get sh!t on, called stupid etc etc. I honestly wondered if that's why GTripp stopped contributing.

But again, whatevs, I don't really care if/when folks disagree w/ me, and that's why I continue to post and disagree when I want to. Not to say I haven't been wrong many a time about the Skins and lot's of other things. I admitted to being wrong when Landry had a good season w/ us, or was it half a season? And if someone named Shanahan starts winning in Washington I'll admit to being wrong on that too.

Spare me the woe is me routine. You're just as guilty tossing out the "apologists" BS every chance you get.

Keim and Campbell have no affiliation with the team and yet as we've seen with the Post in recent years, the local media aren't afraid of going toe to toe with the Redskins or tossing out harsh criticisms. If there really was a big issue with the play calling or schemes, I have to believe someone, anyone, out there in the media would have picked up on it by now. But yeah, I'm sure you with your DVR have cracked the case and really know what's going on behind the scenes. The proof is in the numbers, #3 in total offense, #5 in PPG. If you want to blast Shanahan for his personnel decisions on defense, fine, I have no problem there. But they clearly know what they're doing on offense now that they have a legit weapon at QB. Give credit where it's due, that's all I'm saying.

And let GTripp talk for himself. He has plenty of fans here.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I'll take wins over appearances any day. 2-0 is better than 2-4.

The point is Mike never did, and I strongly, strongly suspect never will, reach a championship w/o Elway, who is one of the best QBs (easily top 10) to ever play the game.

Mike had the benefit of playing in a lousy division most of his career. Now he's in a serious division, and he can't even manage to pull off a winning season.

I just don't understand why anybody not from Denver would hold Mike's coaching (and personnel acumen) in high esteem. Hell, as I've said before I know many Denver residents and diehard Bronco fans (lots of family and friends) who don't think Mike is worth a sh!t.

By the stuff I read here one would think he won those SBs in Washington in the last couple years.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Translation: Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly RG3 is saving both the Shanahans' asses from total failure with the Redskins.

I can pretty much interchange any big time QB and their respective coach and it be true. Enjoy.


Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Brady is saving Bellicheat's ass from total failure with the Patriots.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Rodgers is saving McCarthy's ass from total failure with the Packers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Manning is saving Coughlin's ass from total failure with the Giants.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Brees is saving Payton's ass from total failure with the Saints.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Ryan is saving Smith's ass from total failure with the Falcons.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Montana saved Walsh's ass from total failure with the 49ers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Young saved Seifert's ass from total failure with the 49ers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Manning saved Dungy's ass from total failure with the Colts.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Kelly saved Levy's ass from total failure with the Bills.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Mike had the benefit of playing in a lousy division most of his career.

Insert "You're Wrong" video here.

Look at the records from 94-08. The Chargers, Chiefs and Oakland all had several strong seasons and the division had several seasons of multiple 10+ win teams.

Does either matter now? No. He's got back to back double digit losing seasons here. Does that mean he has done nothing right here? Nope.

It just means he needs to do some winning.

[GTripp0012]

There were a number of reasons why GTripp stopped contributing weekly breakdowns. With that said, everything I would have normally said in a breakdown I still pretty much say anyway. I just don't put it in a single post anymore.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Right, because he didn't win any games with guys like Plummer or Griese.

How many SBs did Elway win without Shanahan?

Didn't Mike go to an afc championship game with both of those guys?

[skinsfaninok]

That's like saying holmgren couldn't win a super bowl without brett. Even though he went wit Seattle years later. It's hard to win superbowls, people act like every good coach or qb should win multiple. Also saying Mike couldn't win without Elway is like saying the redskins will never win again without Joe Gibbs right?

[53Fan]

Well QB's don't save coaches...winning does. A lot of the QB's mentioned had coaches before the ones they won SB's with. Griffen is unreal but he didn't do this without some coaching. A lot of unfortnate things have happened to this team beyond anyones control. Losing Tanard Jackson and injuries to Garcon..Davis..and practically every secondary FA we signed sure hasn't helped.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I can pretty much interchange any big time QB and their respective coach and it be true. Enjoy.


Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Brady is saving Bellicheat's ass from total failure with the Patriots.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Rodgers is saving McCarthy's ass from total failure with the Packers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Manning is saving Coughlin's ass from total failure with the Giants.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Brees is saving Payton's ass from total failure with the Saints.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Ryan is saving Smith's ass from total failure with the Falcons.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Montana saved Walsh's ass from total failure with the 49ers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Young saved Seifert's ass from total failure with the 49ers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Manning saved Dungy's ass from total failure with the Colts.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Kelly saved Levy's ass from total failure with the Bills.

I get your point, but also keep in mind Belichiek won without Brady for a year and went 11-5 with Matt Cassel and Mike McCarthy won with Bret Favre and Rodgers (so both those guys systems work) without their QBs. The other side of the argument is looking up stats of those coaches and see how they fared (like Walsh, Dungy, Levy, etc.) without a star QB. Shanahan without Elway was basically a guy that was just good enough to keep his job every year.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

I get your point, but also keep in mind Belichiek won without Brady for a year and went 11-5 with Matt Cassel and Mike McCarthy won with Bret Favre and Rodgers (so both those guys systems work) without their QBs. The other side of the argument is looking up stats of those coaches and see how they fared (like Walsh, Dungy, Levy, etc.) without a star QB. Shanahan without Elway was basically a guy that was just good enough to keep his job every year.

So 11-5 and 13-3 (lost in AFL championship game to the SB winner that year, The Steelers) records are "just good enough to keep his job every year"? He had both of those records after Elway left Denver. And he did it with subpar QB's.

Also as others love to point out about the Raiders, Chargers, and Chiefs all going 0-16 for 10 years straight while Shanny was in Denver, therefore being the only reason for his success. Well guess what, The Jets havent been relevant since Joe Namath, The Dolphins havent been relevant since Dan Marino, and the Bills havent been relevant since Jim Kelly.

When the claim is the other side of the argument is to look up stats, dont you think that makes it relevant to actually look up the stats instead of stating an opinion based on not looking up the stats?

Btw, did you honestly say that winning a SB with Favre and Rodgers is "winning without their QB's"? This argument gets more absurd every time it is brought up.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I can pretty much interchange any big time QB and their respective coach and it be true. Enjoy.


Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Brady is saving Bellicheat's ass from total failure with the Patriots.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Rodgers is saving McCarthy's ass from total failure with the Packers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Manning is saving Coughlin's ass from total failure with the Giants.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Brees is saving Payton's ass from total failure with the Saints.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Ryan is saving Smith's ass from total failure with the Falcons.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Montana saved Walsh's ass from total failure with the 49ers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Young saved Seifert's ass from total failure with the 49ers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Manning saved Dungy's ass from total failure with the Colts.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Kelly saved Levy's ass from total failure with the Bills.

You might believe the above, but I doubt it. If Belichick outlasts Brady he'll still lead a perennial contender. Matt Cassal whatshisname isn't much better than Rex, but he looked like Tom Brady under Belichick. Bottom line is most SB winning coaches hang it up shortly after winning a Lombardi or two, because it is damn hard. Of course, our very own Joe Gibbs showed how to win w/ different QBs, but we'll (conveniently) set that aside for now, eh? LOL at coaches/teams that haven't won a SB, let alone appeared in won

Since name-calling has been condoned in this very thread, I've got to call you out son as the classic TWP sycophant. Nary do you pass up an opportunity to ecstatically agree with a mod, or two.

And there's lists long as the above of coaches who one with pretty mediocre QB's. So what? Obfuscation cannot change the win-loss record for this regime. But like I said somewhere earlier, let's watch the season unfold and the results will speak for themselves.

[Bucket]

Oh the opinions of the internet.

[JoeRedskin]

Congratulations to the Goat. First poster I have ever placed on my ignore list in eight years. Every time his name shows up, I'll just assume he has posted some variation on "Shanahan sucks" and go from there.

But then I am just a sycophantic apologist after all.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I don't pay attention to what the mainstream media (be it political, sports, or otherwise) says. Too much money, business, etc wrapped into anything associated with NBC, Fox, ESPN, NFLN. For instance, RG3 is to a very large degree a "brand" the NFL and all associated parties want to promote i.e. I would never expect "them" to point out plays getting blown up because the opposing defense read it before the ball was snapped.

Yeah why pay attention to people whose jobs it is to spend hours observing the team up close several days a week?

What I would point to, are some pretty insightful folks around here (not talking about myself here) who have pointed out the really, really questionable play-calls, play-designs. I think I see more of them, that's all. And the fact is Mike and Kyle, couldn't do ANYTHING with the offense w/o Griffin.

But the folks here who point out the strong play calling and designs are just "apologists" right.

My intuition is that we'd probably have a bit more intelligent discussion/debate here if the Shanny regime doubters didn't get sh!t on, called stupid etc etc. I honestly wondered if that's why GTripp stopped contributing.

Saying Shanahan has never done anything without Elway or that he befitted in playing in a weak division is incorrect and therefore a stupid opinion.

But again, whatevs, I don't really care if/when folks disagree w/ me, and that's why I continue to post and disagree when I want to. Not to say I haven't been wrong many a time about the Skins and lot's of other things. I admitted to being wrong when Landry had a good season w/ us, or was it half a season? And if someone named Shanahan starts winning in Washington I'll admit to being wrong on that too.

You'll find some way to spin it. Just like you're spinning it now.