The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

This breaks my heart.

Then the Cowboys drafted Ware and made him the cornerstone for the transition to the 3-4 Parcells wanted. The feeling here, right or wrong, is that we drafted our 3-4 cornerstone last year in Brian Orakpo

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by mredskins

I think you will find for the most part sans a handful of teams (Indy, NE, etc...) this is the case for most NFL teams. It is hard to win in the NFL and finding the right combo to do so is evening more difficult.

Hang in there this team is going in the right direction and is probably poised to be the most successful team under Snyder's watch. you will see.

I kind of have a hard time agreeing with you. Lets see what stability brings and what teams have it. Eagles..hmmm..winners every year, one of the youngest teams in the NFL. NE, Colts (hired in house, been with organization for a while, tons of draft picks) Baltimore, Ozzie Newsome in the same postion for years and gets quality picks and players every single year in the draft, New Orleans, took a two, three years to get players, but won a SB, Green bay another one that is pretty damn good with stability at the coaching spot. Look at the teams that keep their coaches in place for a number of years and let them learn instead of the owners (Danny) jumping in and getting rid of them after two years. Minnesota another one, hell they wanted to fire Chilly a couple of years ago, actually they said the same thing about McCarthy in Green Bay after a couple of years.

My point is, its getting old of a constant rebuilding effort even though they continuously tell us they are NOT rebuilding. I would be more patient if they said we are going young, develop young talent and grow our players than I am with what happens every year here. it is getting old.

[MTK]

Shanahan should be here for at least 5 years, and hopefully Kyle can be groomed to take over. Yes the constant reshuffling of coaches has been frustrating but it is what it is. And hopefully we're entering a period of prolonged stability. Bitching about it now though is what's getting tired to me.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Shanahan should be here for at least 5 years, and hopefully Kyle can be groomed to take over. Yes the constant reshuffling of coaches has been frustrating but it is what it is. And hopefully we're entering a period of prolonged stability. Bitching about it now though is what's getting tired to me.

We were suppose to have stability when Gibbs was here. He brought in GW to succeed him. We were suppose to hire GW to run things, that is why he came here to learn from Gibbs and become a better coach. Stability was preached the entire time Gibbs was here. But as soon as Gibbs decided he had enough, Danny did the Danny and hired some dumb ass named Zorn

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

We were suppose to have stability when Gibbs was here. He brought in GW to succeed him. We were suppose to hire GW to run things, that is why he came here to learn from Gibbs and become a better coach. Stability was preached the entire time Gibbs was here. But as soon as Gibbs decided he had enough, Danny did the Danny and hired some dumb ass named Zorn

Gibbs up and left early. the teams mentioned above have kept the folks they have kept because they are successful/good.

Your argument sounds like you want us to keep Zorn, would a decade of losing seasons been better then firing him? Well at least we could say we consistently stayed with one guy.

This league is allow about change, rarely does any head couch last longer then 5 years.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Gibbs up and left early. the teams mentioned above have kept the folks they have kept because they are successful/good.

Your argument sounds like you want us to keep Zorn, would a decade of losing seasons been better then firing him? Well at least we could say we consistently stayed with one guy.

This league is allow about change, rarely does any head couch last longer then 5 years.

That wasn't what I was saying. My point was we axe coaches after two seasons without giving them a chance to actually do something. Do something with a good GM, a good talent evaluator, and players that fit that coaches style. It was all about Danny and Vinny picking players for the coach which had no business doing the evaluations in the first place. Now, hopefully we will have some continuity with Shanny and son, but we'll have to wait and see. I would have thought when Gibbs left that we would have kept things the same hiring GW, but Danny didn't like that idea and ended up with Zorn because no one else wanted to take the job.

[skinsnut]

Well never know what would have happened if GW took over after Gibbs...but if you base this on historical head coaching history...it wouldn't have been good....just like Haslett is not doing well as a defensive coordinator.
But Zorn had no history, so why not?....it was a crap shoot...emphasis on CRAP.

What bothers me is that Shanny seems to be locked in to making the same mistakes he always has....hiring bad defensive coordinators and churning them.

Also, not playing your top talent in their best position to win is kinda stupid if you ask me.

Didn't Carter and Orakpo have the most sacks in decades playing with Haynesworth in the 4-3?....imagine if we had another stud DT to add to that and stuck with the 4-3...hell...all we really needed was a FS and an OLB for that scheme.
...instead...we change essentially all the front seven to different positions and bench Daniels, Haynesworth...then we neuter Carter, keep Orakpo in a less than ideal LB spot, move an outside LB inside, and make am undersided MLB (fletch) to deal with huge Guards AND Tackles instead of a center and an occasional FB.
Come to think of it...there is only a single defensive player that has been put in a position that maximizes their natural talents....that is Landry.
Tell me where I am wrong.

[MTK]

Crying over spilled milk at this point.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Crying over spilled milk at this point.

Obviously you don't know how much milk costs here.

[skinsnut]

And don't give me that...we needed more turnovers crap....
I would gladly deal with no turnovers if we could force teams to punt occasionally.

After all...it is statistically far easier to force a punt than to force a turnover.
Forcing turnovers usually means taking big risks. At some point you need to assess if those risks in big plays are paying off....they certainly are not.

If you get a couple turnovers, but yield 350-500 yards a game and 30 points...it doesn't mean jack.

What is the worst way to lose defensively?
- because you gave up 500 yards and 30+ points
- because you got zero sacks and gave up 300 yards and 20 points
- because you got zero turnovers and gave up 300 yards and 20 points

I'd rather consistantly stop someone, rather than hope for some occassional big play like a sack or turnover to stop them...because teams that don't make mistakes dont give up sacks or turnovers anyways....you need to BEAT them...not trick them.

I know...talent, talent...but c'mon...freaking Phillip Daniels can stop the damn run and he is benched, Haynesworth essentially makes our defense 11 vs 10 because they need 2 to block him....and he is benched...Orakpo?...Fletcher?...probowlers playing for Blache!
McIntosh aint half bad and Landry is a SS beast...I bet if we played straight up we'd do better.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Crying over spilled milk at this point.

Matty...perhaps...but spilled milk is considered gone....there is nothing other than stubborness that would prevent the Skins to go back to a 4-3 the majority of the time to maximize the defensive talent that we have.
It is called humility and good coaching....something Gibbs would have done but unlikely to be done by Shanahan.

Gibbs 2 wasn't great...but he did take a really crappy team and get them to the playoffs twice...getting the best out of your roster is what the best coaches do. Shanny needs to prove he can do that and within a week or two to give this team some hope again.

I also need to see this team fight for their coach and vice versa...they did it for Gibbs...and he took the heat for them....lets see if Shanny can create a TEAM again

[SmootSmack]

It's not as if they're lining up every single play in a 3-4. They've been mixing it up in different formations

[skinsnut]

It's not just the base 3-4..it is who is playing what position on the field...Carter in coverage for example is idiotic...considering that is exactly where he failed before we got him playing his best role.

Check out this good read from a Philly fan's perspective.
If skins fans see the problem, it is fairly obvious...but when our competitors fan's see what is going on....it is just plain...DUH!

Jim Haslett-Led Redskins Defense Can’t Stop Anybody | GCOBB.COM

[MTK]

Talking about Gibbs, Williams, and even Zorn at this point is just a waste of time and I really don't understand why we need to keep rehashing the past, especially with a new front office and coaching staff in place. We made some positive changes, let's give it some time to work.

It's just totally absurd to me that we're 3 games in to this new regime and people are so up in arms over things. Did anyone really expect a smooth transition to a new offense, new QB, new defense, and 1/3 of the roster turned over? Where did the last few years get us anyway? 4-12 last year? A top 10 defense that created little sacks or turnovers and had people pulling their hair out all season?

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's not as if they're lining up every single play in a 3-4. They've been mixing it up in different formations

yeah, that one down lineman crap I have seen way too much.