Ongoing CBA discussions

[CRedskinsRule]

So goodell is now making $1? Man that ain't fun!
Lockout has begun

[GusFrerotte]

TO be honest not all that disappointed if there is no football, the main reason being I don't see us being a contender, and second the NFL is probably the most overhyped "product" on the planet, along with the NBA. It seems the more money that gets involved the less valuable the product. I rather watch a handful of well oiled football machines than a bunch of mediocre teams that limp into the playoffs. Now with Indy about to go down the tubes, and New England probably next, we will be stuck watching the Steelers/ Ravens or heaven help us, the Jets in the SB for the next few years maybe. God awful boring football. Hopefully the Saints can get it together and become a juggernaut again. God I really do miss the 80's!!!!!!!

[Dirtbag59]

It's just so hypocritical. Talking about how the fans are tired of paying full price for preseason games as justification for an 18 game season. It's like damn, if only there was a way to not have fans pay full price for preseason games. Common sense solution, stop charging full price for preseason games. NFL owners solution, turn two games into full speed regular season games.

The real problem is money withdrawal. Owners have gotten so use to cashing in on those preseason games that they don't want to stop screwing the fans over at the register.

By the way can someone please explain this 18 game proposal that the NFL submitted recently? Because if I read it right on NFL Network it was that 11 and 12 would be 16 games and then the NFL Owners would decide on an extended season for 2013 and beyond. Please tell me I read it wrong. Heck please tell me that the NFL has given up on even pursuing an 18 game season. The fact that less practices and offseason contact drills is possibly being used as a bargaining chip for an extended season is sickening.

Haven't you assholes been presented with enough literature about how damaged these players are after they leave the game? Shouldn't less practice and contact drills be a given?

[Dirtbag59]

And another thing.

Owners are acting like they have a raw deal. What other major team sport can you sign a player to these days and only be responsible for around 30%-40% of the total value of a contract (and thats assuming you're at least an entrenched starter with pro bowl possibilities)? The Dodgers have to go to the court of law to prove that Manny was faking an injury just to get back a portion of his money. I don't know enough about the NBA to make a firm and fast statement but from what I have read releasing a player before his time is up is a pain in the ass once summer workouts are done. In the NFL they simply release you with minimal consequences. No arbitration

You don't have to worry about supporting a farm team. Sure maybe you make a couple of donations to schools with interesting prospects in hopes of getting an edge on draft day but the bottom line is you don't owe the NCAA anything for giving kids an edumacation into how to work the system.

What other league is able to charge millions for 30 seconds of air time?

[skinsfaninok]

First lockout of my life basically, I was born in 86 so I don't remember the last lockout.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

First lockout of my life basically, I was born in 86 so I don't remember the last lockout.

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.word...ckap.jpg?w=250

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If this "HAD" to happen, then why The 24 hour and 7 day extensions? This did not HAVE to happen. A deal could have been worked out if both sides wanted to work one out. The problem is, they didn't. They wanted to give the appearance of wanting a deal. I'm disgusted with both sides, but mostly the players side, specifically demaurice smith. the guy strikes me as a total d bag.

Exactly my feelings.

[skinsfaninok]

An 18 games schedule is ****ing stupid in the first place, but the players can't and won't get 50% of the revenue

[Alvin Walton]

I hope when this is said and done we get 18 games.

[GTripp0012]

Here's my take: the players made significant gains for themselves (but not for retired players) in 2006 though the process of collectively bargaining. That negotiation was far more time sensitive than this current one. They couldn't let the 2006 league year begin without a deal because there was no language in that deal to protect against teams leveraging the last capped year to their benefit, and muddying the waters for any potential future labor deal. The salary cap, very seriously, may never have returned and the quality of football declined.

It should not be perceived as a liability of the owners that the players were seemingly unwilling to collectively bargain away some of the gains they had made in 2006 without seeing the financials. Should they have just given back $1 Billion in future revenues? Probably not, but the players association came from a totally false premise that there would be anything close to a "give back" in these negotiations.

There was no agreement. That's why there is currently a lockout. Right now, the players have nothing. There is no agreement, and until a court rules that a lockout violates anti-trust law, no contracts for the upcoming season are valid.

Ultimately, the players are worth a certain amount. They are probably worth less than the owners "best" offer, but more than what they would have gotten if the union had "given back" $1 Billion of the revenue pie. Whatever the number was, it certainly could have been achieved through collective bargaining, but both sides (particularly the players) would have needed to check false entitlement at the door.

It's hard to sympathize with the owners because they certainly are underestimating their own ability to create new revenue streams. They certainly didn't NEED to opt out of the CBA to remain profitable. They may have needed to alter their business models a bit to cut costs and increase revenues (and I thought the 18 game season was a fairly ingenuous was to accomplish this).

The players are fully entitled to choose the litigation route via decertification, but fair value (plus a little extra) could have been achieved through collective bargaining. The only logical reason for going this route has little to do with fair value and mutually ensured prosperity, but with "going to war" and "winning" the labor dispute. That's an excellent example of the greed that they NFLPA leadership is accusing the owners of.

The NFLPA probably does have better laywers and likely can "win" in court, and the fans ultimately aren't going to give a damn when football is here next season, and as an observer it's hard for me not to root for the players to get whatever they can in the negotiations.

But the buck will eventually just be passed along to the fans anyway.

[CRedskinsRule]

Nevermind...

[NC_Skins]

Instead Of Player Pay Cuts, NFL Needs More Revenue Sharing - SportsMoney - news on the business of sports - Forbes


I suggest everybody read this article from Forbes. You know, the people would know and understand the finances of business.

There’s little doubting that player salaries come into the equation with the NFL’s finances. But, the complexities as to why there would be losses has to be tied to more than just saying, “because we said so.” The Forbes numbers paints two pictures: incredible growth for some clubs, while others have not grown at the same pace. That points to an internal matter for the league’s owners to handle, more than saying it solely rests on the shoulders of increased player salaries
.

Game. Set. Match.

[SBXVII]

GTripp,

The NFLPA probably does have better laywers and likely can "win" in court, and the fans ultimately aren't going to give a damn when football is here next season, and as an observer it's hard for me not to root for the players to get whatever they can in the negotiations.

I can see where your coming from in respect that I would hope anyone would lobby to get whatever money they can get, but I have a hard time siding with the players after hearing what the owners offered, how much the players are already making, and honestly I don't feel sorry for the retired players when they should have found a way to save during their playing days or saved during their jobs after football. All football players know they have about 10-20 yrs to play then age catches up with them and then they should be putting their degrees to good use for their retirement.

I just have a hard time feeling sorry when I make roughly $50,000 a year with overtime, have to pay for the majority of my medical and dental, a % of my earnings goes to retirement and another goes to social security and yet my job is no different then the medical professionals who have to worry about picking up a disease from their patients, firemen who face getting killed fighting fires everyday, or policemen who face getting killed everyday.

I understand fans being pissed because they think the owners are being greedy but no one goes into business to lose money. No one goes into business to give away half their earnings. Businessman start business in the hopes of making the most money they can. Plus how good your business goes determines how succesful you are. So most owners should appear greedy because they are trying to make the most. If anything I feel the players are the ones fans should be pointing their fingers at and calling greedy because it just seems they are trying to take and take from what the owners are earnging. It seems like they want the owners to fork over the money for everything that the common citizen has to pay for on their own. It seems like their taking their starting salaries of $400,000 + for granted when if they don't like what they are doing to what they are making then come join the rest of us who have to earn a fraction of what they make with worse conditions then what they have .... everyday, not just on Sundays. Instead of risking their lives for 16 days of the year how about they risk their lives for 365 days minus weekends or time off and holidays. Not to mention having to worry about a possibility of a furlough. or they can find another job that has a union if they like.

[SBXVII]

Better yet the players can decide to not play for the NFL anymore and maybe start their own league with the intention of giving 60% + of their earnings to the players they hire and paying for all medical expenses for the rest of the players lives as well as a retirement fund and they could cut the games played to maybe half of what the NFL has say 8 games a year then playoff time cause cutting the games played obviously saves the players from getting more injuries.

[skinsfaninok]

This thread is getting heated