How far can Beck take us?

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Why is it that the guys coming to our defense are the Bill Romanowski's of the world. Why can't we get Jaws, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Tom Jackson, someone, ANYONE that isn't a humongous blowhard.

Heck we might as well have Jose Canseco speak up for us at this point

Dirtbag:

Maybe we could get Terrell Owens to do a Q&A for the Warpath. That might be fun...

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Snyder has to be prepared for us to suck right? I mean everyone else can see the writing on the wall.

I feel like this season is infinitely more likely to end in a Shanahan resignation/retirement party than any other outcome. The five year contract is inflated like a free agent deal, except it's technically "guaranteed".

But I'm sure there's a mutual understanding of expectations. If Shanahan was actually here to rebuild the franchise (like Gibbs was here to rehabilitate it), they would have started in 2010. They weren't here for that. Shanahan took this job to try to capitalize on an advantageous situation left behind by Zorn: low expectations and a boatload of talent on the roster.

A year and a half later, the franchise is in a completely different place. The talent on the roster has been pretty much wiped clean. The team isn't nearly as old as it was before. There's not too many 25 and under players to be excited about yet, but the bad contracts are all gone. Coming out of the lockout, we had a blank slate. And we used predominately a "the future is now" strategy in free agency, though we did so without mortgaging the future position (finally).

Bruce Allen is here for the long haul. Mike Shanahan though appears to be more interested in proving that he is smarter than the rest of the league (that was right on a number of players coming out of college that others missed on). Hey, if Shanahan is the genius he believes he is, this team will go ten and six, and Kellen Clemens will have a 4,000 yard passing season. Of course he's staying on board if that happens.

I mean, if we win this year, all bets are off and Hooray! for rebuilding The Right Way. If we lose this year, well, I think Shanahan is in good position to make a clean split with the organization in roughly the same long-term shape than when he took over and all he did was waste two years of Dan Snyder's not-all-that-valuable time. Life will go on.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Shanahan took this job to try to capitalize on an advantageous situation left behind by Zorn: low expectations and a boatload of talent on the roster.

What are you talking about Tripp?

A boatload of talent on the roster?

Redskin fans have slogged through this pathetic twenty year campaign of barely almost passable mediocrity and they sure as shit know the talent level on the Redskins has been terribly terribly overrated forever. By ourselves mostly. And Mr. Smithers (aka Vinny)

They were just paid like talented players.

Shanny was well aware of this. He has a different plan.

I agree with most everything else you said.

[IRISHSKIN24]

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;822070]I feel like this season is infinitely more likely to end in a Shanahan resignation/retirement party than any other outcome.

I strongly but respectfully disagree, i think this year is the year that we begin to compete again, i'd say 8-8. Shanahan's cleaning up after "Vinny and Dan's BOGUS ADVENTURE"/10 + year rager, filled with a lot of excess in every area. He had to make a plan, and take out the garbage. this year he knows what tools he has and what he doesn't, he's got guys who bought into the system, most of whom know what is to be expected or at least will by the end of preseason. so why after light is visible after this dismal tunnel of franchise history is starting to end will he just walk away? he always talks about full commitment/effort, so why would he leave a job unfinished?

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Dirtbag:

Maybe we could get Terrell Owens to do a Q&A for the Warpath. That might be fun...

In terms of blowhards

Romanowski > T.O

People just forget because T.O has been around more recently.

[That Guy]

mike will stay past this year, i'd bet on it gtripp he's been around long enough and he's a lifer, and i mean... who else is danny going to get? fisher (sp?) is the only good candidate out there.

[NLC1054]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Isn't McNabb famous for those hell weeks in Arizona? I'm sorry, I mean I'm looking for reasons why McNabb failed in DC, but I'm not about to pin laziness on him just so we can look righteous.

If I had to guess I'd stay stubbornness was most most likely the biggest culprit. This is McNabb we're talking about here. Not Dan late night at the cabana club Marino.

When we talk about McNabb being lazy, it's not necessarily that he didn't work out, or that he didn't spend time in the film room, or do the things the quarterback is "supposed" to do.

It's that he was the last guy on the field in practice, and he lacked urgency and tempo in practice. His chill attitude didn't gel well with Mike's no non-sense approach. His lack of urgency on the field and in the huddle led to a lot of unnecessary delay of game penalties, and it didn't allow time to make adjustments at the line. Part of what helped the o-line with Rex in there was the fact they got in and out of the huddle quicker, which allowed the line time to adjust.

A faster tempo gives the offense more time to adjust and the defense less time to do the things they need to do.

On top of being either unwilling or unable to adjust to the way Kyle does things, and struggling to learn the playbook, he didn't even have the best sense or urgency to operate the offense with the plays he did know.

I think that's the definition of "lazy" here, and while Mike likes Rex and Beck a little more. They've got a little more hustle on the field.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

What are you talking about Tripp?

A boatload of talent on the roster?

Redskin fans have slogged through this pathetic twenty year campaign of barely almost passable mediocrity and they sure as shit know the talent level on the Redskins has been terribly terribly overrated forever. By ourselves mostly. And Mr. Smithers (aka Vinny)

They were just paid like talented players.

Shanny was well aware of this. He has a different plan.

I agree with most everything else you said.

Well, when Albert Haynesworth, Andre Carter, Donovan McNabb, and Fred Davis sit in favor of Ma'ake Kemoeatu, Rocky McIntosh, Rex Grossman, and Mike Sellers, I do understand why someone would think this.

[GTripp0012]

I apologize for anyone who perceives my above post as overly negative, as I'm just trying to read between the lines. Coaches who are Mike Shanahan's age don't come in to rebuild franchises or happily sustain long periods of losing. I don't know if any coach has taken a job (recently) at Shanahan's age or older, had back to back losing seasons, and then managed to return for a third year. That's way less fun than retirement.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I apologize for anyone who perceives my above post as overly negative, as I'm just trying to read between the lines. Coaches who are Mike Shanahan's age don't come in to rebuild franchises or happily sustain long periods of losing. I don't know if any coach has taken a job (recently) at Shanahan's age or older, had back to back losing seasons, and then managed to return for a third year. That's way less fun than retirement.

but he's a coaching lifer, he literally doesn't have anything else to do... he rather still be playing, if he could.

I don't know... there's stubborn and then there's this guy, so i don't see it so soon, especially since he has the keys to the kingdom and the fans aren't revolting... and i don't think (besides rex getting hurt and the qb play sinking past terrible) it'll go sour unless we go 4-12 this year.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by That Guy

mike will stay past this year, i'd bet on it gtripp he's been around long enough and he's a lifer, and i mean... who else is danny going to get? fisher (sp?) is the only good candidate out there.

Lifers who stick around (such as Dick Vermell in KC, Marty Schottenheimer in SD, Norv Turner in SD, Herm in KC, Wade in DAL, Coughlin in NY) typically didn't have to deal with multiple losing seasons in a row before retirement. In fact, none of those guys had consecutive losing seasons after their first job and returned for a third. Herm got the closest, I suppose. The most "recent" example I found of a older, re-tread coach who took a job then had back to back losing seasons and didn't call it a career was Vermeil in St. Louis. But he won the super bowl in his third year.

Mariucci went three losing seasons in Detroit, but he was ten years younger than Shanahan when Detroit hired him.

Parcells, Gibbs, Holmgren, Dungy all had winning seasons in one of their first two years back. If we're going to make the argument that Shanny can go 5-11 this year and won't step down at the end of the season, only Dennis Green was hired in his mid-late fifties by an organization that was struggling, then took three years to try and turn it around. Needless to say, I think either Shanahan's work pays off and he stays, or it doesn't and he leaves. I don't see a middle ground here. Winning is fun. Losing means retirement.

This applies to Chan Gailey as well, by the way. Though I have a good feeling that the Bills might avoid a losing season this year and keep Gailey employed.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by That Guy

but he's a coaching lifer, he literally doesn't have anything else to do... he rather still be playing, if he could.

I don't know... there's stubborn and then there's this guy, so i don't see it so soon, especially since he has the keys to the kingdom and the fans aren't revolting... and i don't think (besides rex getting hurt and the qb play sinking past terrible) it'll go sour unless we go 4-12 this year.

I don't know. I feel like the exception you're making in terms of expecting Shanahan back in 2012 would be the status quo here. I think he's fully expecting to win with this team, and I don't think he's looking ahead.

So...yeah, two losing seasons in a row, and I think he'll let someone else have a try. It's not like he's set up his successor for a championship run or anything that he's simply too tired to take himself. Either he's built something here or he hasn't done squat. We'll know in four months.

[GTripp0012]

The other thing to consider is that Mike hasn't ever had consecutive 9+ loss seasons in his career. Ever.

They are definitely in uncharted territory here.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The other thing to consider is that Mike hasn't ever had consecutive 9+ loss seasons in his career. Ever.

They are definitely in uncharted territory here.

that said, he doesn't have a QB, so what can you expect? mike's definitely been able to do more with less, but i'm just not seeing him ready to go... if things really fall apart and it looks like last season where we're playing the wrong defense, don't have the right personnel and can't stop anyone, then yeah, i can see it.

I don't really see that happening though. they put 4 new bodies in the front 7, and at least 3 are going to help a lot (kerrigan still needs to get up to speed a bit), and the teams hasn't really gotten worse anywhere. OL is improved - rabach is gone, we've got a 6th starter for depth, and its a very fast line overall. helu torrain and hightower are better than our RBs last year, and jabar/donte beats the crap out of galloway/that other crappy guy from last year, even if hankerson doesn't blow it up.

anyways, i'm saying, with drew brees, this is a playoff team if only... but i don't see us being much worse, the team is younger, we've got next year's picks, and andrew luck may be a possibility. so we're not set up to be awful going into next year.

QB is awful, and if this year was super important, they would had overpaid for orton and gauranteed average, but acceptable QB play for the next 3-4 years... obviously that's not the way to a superbowl though, so i'm assuming they're waiting to get their guy next year, and that mike's on board with that.

gibbs wasn't an nfl lifer, he was out for a decade, and the 2nd time around he had casserly replaced with a moron committee that didn't really do him a lot of favors. after his 2nd year, the team wasn't any better, younger, or draft pick rich then when he came.

if we go 8-8, 7-9, whatever and qb play is killing us, that's a one stop problem. I just don't see it being that dismal in 4 months, but i guess we'll see soon enough.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by That Guy

that said, he doesn't have a QB, so what can you expect? mike's definitely been able to do more with less, but i'm just not seeing him ready to go... if things really fall apart and it looks like last season where we're playing the wrong defense, don't have the right personnel and can't stop anyone, then yeah, i can see it.

I don't really see that happening though. they put 4 new bodies in the front 7, and at least 3 are going to help a lot (kerrigan still needs to get up to speed a bit), and the teams hasn't really gotten worse anywhere. OL is improved - rabach is gone, we've got a 6th starter for depth, and its a very fast line overall. helu torrain and hightower are better than our RBs last year, and jabar/donte beats the crap out of galloway/that other crappy guy from last year, even if hankerson doesn't blow it up.

anyways, i'm saying, with drew brees, this is a playoff team if only... but i don't see us being much worse, the team is younger, we've got next year's picks, and andrew luck may be a possibility. so we're not set up to be awful going into next year.

QB is awful, and if this year was super important, they would had overpaid for orton and gauranteed average, but acceptable QB play for the next 3-4 years... obviously that's not the way to a superbowl though, so i'm assuming they're waiting to get their guy next year, and that mike's on board with that.

gibbs wasn't an nfl lifer, he was out for a decade, and the 2nd time around he had casserly replaced with a moron committee that didn't really do him a lot of favors. after his 2nd year, the team wasn't any better, younger, or draft pick rich then when he came.

if we go 8-8, 7-9, whatever and qb play is killing us, that's a one stop problem. I just don't see it being that dismal in 4 months, but i guess we'll see soon enough.

Well I think the Orton thing is that Shanahan thinks he probably has at least one QB better in Rex/Beck/Clemens, and bringing in Orton would have cluttered things up more than solved them. Which is the only reason I can imagine he's not here.

I'm still not seeing Shanahan as fundamentally different to other recent NFL re-hires; I think you're stretching a bit there.

If he's right on the QB position, there's probably enough else useful, interesting talent here in it's prime to make the NFC East race interesting, if nothing else. 8 or 9 wins is do-able with strong QB/WR play. I think he'll come back if this team can get to that level.