2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

Why is this interesting? I would think the article that's linked in the story is far more interesting with nuggets like:

Thought this was interesting too.

RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Battle for the Senate

GOP could pull 7 of the 9 Toss Ups and possibly 2 of the leans Dem. GOP House/Senate, with Obama as POTUS.....4 years of gridlock (not counting 2014 midterms). Over the last 30 yrs. or so, this type of arrangement bodes well for the economy (Clinton/Reagan). Obviously not my ideal scenario (plus I'm out $100 bucks), but could happen.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Thought this was interesting too.

RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Battle for the Senate

GOP could pull 7 of the 9 Toss Ups and possibly 2 of the leans Dem. GOP House/Senate, with Obama as POTUS.....4 years of gridlock (not counting 2014 midterms). Over the last 30 yrs. or so, this type of arrangement bodes well for the economy (Clinton/Reagan). Obviously not my ideal scenario (plus I'm out $100 bucks), but could happen.

You losing $100 is a forgone conclusion, in fact, I am so confident that I am willing to bet in 12thMan's place and put another 100 in the pot.

Brown isn't winning MA and neither is McCaskill in MO. Nelson is an old dog with cat like lives, Tester is done for and Allen Macaca isn't going to win VA... ultimately Dems need 3 seats to maintain control which really doesn't mean much these days as Republicans have indiscriminately utilized the filibuster to instituting gridlock the last 3.5 years.

Bottom line, your money is going to get spent with or without a Federal Budget and you need to get these stupid Republican talking points out of your head and assume the fetal position or just grab your ankles, it will all go a lot smoother that way.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You've got to stop parroting the talking points and look deeper.

- Obama had no choice in extending the Bush tax cuts, if he didn't the economy would be definitively worse than it already is and he wouldn't even have a shot at winning in Nov. His position is higher taxes and "spreading the wealth around" , no way to deny that.

- What a Dem controlled Congress passed was not what the GOP originally designed.

- Dramatic decrease in fed workers.....you need to check out your own liberal sites? Read this from Politifact:
The Warpath

From the link: "First, let’s look at federal government employment, which accounts for just 13 percent of all government employment. The number of federal workers has increased by 38,000 over the same period -- an increase of 1.4 percent.

And if you separate out the U.S. Postal Service, the growth was even bigger. Non-postal federal employment -- about 10 percent of all government employment -- increased over the same period by 139,000 workers, or 6.7 percent."

- Added 5M jobs???? Are you kidding me? This is from the Communist News Network in Jan. 2012, I know the private sector didn't add 6M jobs since then:
Did Obama really make government bigger? - Jan. 25, 2012
"The federal government has been one of the few areas that's grown during the economic downturn. The private sector remains down 1.1 million jobs from the start of 2009, while state and local governments have shed 635,000 positions.

Actual facts from Fox News in June 2012
By going back 27 months, Obama starts counting at the low point of employment for the private sector in February 2010 and tracks how far it has come. But counting farther back, since the end of the recession in June 2009, private-sector job gains have been much more modest, 3.1 million. That's a more meaningful measurement to economists.
Overall, the economy has lost 1.37 million jobs — 784,000 in the private sector — since Obama was inaugurated.
Read more: FACT CHECK: Where Obama, Romney missed mark | Fox News


Just thought I'd throw these out. Obama was rated by National Journal as the most liberal senator for 2007 and 10th most liberal in 2006.

Don't try to cover for Obama's far-left positions, he is who he is. He needs to just come out and make the case for European Socialism to the American people and let the chips fall where they may.
Obama’s Third-Party History - Stanley Kurtz - National Review Online


P.S. You never came up with an answer for me on the green energy (junk bond) loans?

Wait a minute, Slingin. Either Obama governed from the far left or he didn't. Your excuse that he had no choice but to extend the Bush tax cuts doesn't ring honest to me. He most certainly had a choice in the matter and he chose to do the reasonable thing at the time. Why can't you admit that?

In the process of extending the Bush tax cuts for 2 years Republicans made some concessions. That's politics; the art of compromise. Good grief, man. If Obama was such an ideologue, as you claim, he would have absolutely let the tax cuts expire and drove the country off the cliff. But he didn't.

As far as the rest of your claims, they really don't mean anything if you see all of the president's actions through the lens of "far left". On many accounts, he's been a pragmatist. Shocker! Not always getting optimal results, but on a range of issues, particularly foreign policy, Obama's been more centrist than his opponents would like to admit.

[12thMan]

Again, you repeat the blatant lie that Obama raised taxes and you know full well that he's cut them; at least 18 times. Between extending the Bush tax cuts and the stimulus (36% tax cuts), you're talking massive cuts across the board. But oh no...he's distributing the wealth. Socialism!! Get outta here. It's a lie.

[12thMan]

On second thought, let's just look at one clean chart from the Wall Street Journal. A trustworthy right leaning source.

Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record - Real Time Economics - WSJ

[12thMan]

Ever notice when conservatives decry Obama socialism they rarely, if ever, point to an actual policy signed into law?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Ever notice when conservatives decry Obama socialism they rarely, if ever, point to an actual policy signed into law?

Indoctrination.


Crowley: Pres. Obama Is a 'Skinny Socialist' and 'Big, Fat Liar' - President Obama - Fox Nation

Obama’s New Campaign Slogan’s Historical Ties to Marxism, Socialism - Barack Obama - Fox Nation

Obama a Socialist? AP Runs 1,365-Word Fact Check - Barack Obama - Fox Nation

Obama Awards Medal of Freedom to Socialist? - Medal Of Freedom - Fox Nation

Obama's Socialist Connection - President Obama - Fox Nation

Barack Obama, Socialist?

(all this with 10 secs from google, imagine if I really researched it)


Do you now understand why Fox News target audience relates to Obama as a socialist/communist?

[Dirtbag59]

Best site for everyone. (Conservatives, liberals, independents, and liberterians)
FactCheck.org | A Project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center

[NC_Skins]

^^indeed DB.



Also, I thought this was a appropriate time for a LOL MORMONS moment.







Context:

Kolob is a star or planet described in Mormon scripture. Reference to Kolob is found in the Book of Abraham, a work published by Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement. According to this work, Kolob is the heavenly body nearest to the throne of God. While the Book of Abraham refers to Kolob as a "star",[1] it also refers to planets as stars,[2] and therefore, some LDS commentators consider Kolob to be a planet.[3] Other Latter Day Saints, or Mormons), consider Kolob to be a metaphor.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

^^indeed DB.



Also, I thought this was a appropriate time for a LOL MORMONS moment.







Context:

Honestly he can believe whatever he wants and still be President in my book so long as he keeps it separate from his policies.

Right now for example I'm gambling that Bush was more pro-life then Romney and it did nothing to overturn Roe vs Wade and I think that at his core Romney the politician is socially moderate. In fact one analyst said it best in that Romneys flip flopping is an advantage because people can imagine their own Romney which might even be the case with me.

In the end the thing thats always scary as hell with conservatives is they have the potential to take us backwards in terms of social issues. However in terms of economic policies I agree on their philosophies and historically they are more talk then action when it comes to social issues.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Ever notice when conservatives decry Obama socialism they rarely, if ever, point to an actual policy signed into law?

It is amazing the level of intellectual deficit they often exhibit. When asked specifically what part of Romney's plan for the country they like, it's as if they are on taped infinite loop...anything is better than Obama...anything is better than Obama....anything is better than Obama How will Romney cut taxes, increase defense spending, eliminate the deficit, strengthen Medicare and Medicaid and decrease the national debt? Anything is better than Obama! How is Romney going to tackle Iran? Anything is better than Obama! How is Romney going to be different than Bush? Anything is better than Obama! lalalalalalalalala...Anything is better than Obama!



Men who lack conscience will even lie to themselves...fortunately for all of us Romney isn't going to be our next president.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

On second thought, let's just look at one clean chart from the Wall Street Journal. A trustworthy right leaning source.

Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record - Real Time Economics - WSJ

Yes, let's look and compare Bush to Obama.

Bush, created 3M jobs. Obama lost 1.37 million jobs.

[NC_Skins]

This is so true...lol

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Yes, let's look and compare Bush to Obama.

Bush, created 3M jobs. Obama lost 1.37 million jobs.

This chart uses the same formula I used to to cite private sector growth under Obama, 4.5 million jobs. In fact, if we're calculating net job growth, Bush may have ended his presidency slightly under water.

It's an indisputable fact that George W. Bush had the worse jobs creation record of any modern president. It's also a fact we were bleeding 750K jobs a month before Obama was sworn in and passed the stimulus. Mitt Romney wants to essentially go back and double down on his failed policies.

Look, we can play this game of statistics all day. President Obama will get reelected and the economy will continue it's trajectory of recovery -- with or without Republicans. Things are headed in the right direction.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Again, you repeat the blatant lie that Obama raised taxes and you know full well that he's cut them; at least 18 times. Between extending the Bush tax cuts and the stimulus (36% tax cuts), you're talking massive cuts across the board. But oh no...he's distributing the wealth. Socialism!! Get outta here. It's a lie.

Please don't deny Obama's philosophy is "spread the wealth around", those are his own words. The only reason taxes haven't skyrocketed under Obama is the GOP House wins in 2010.

- 21 tax hikes in ObamaCare hitting taxpayers with over $ 675B.

- and Obama and the Dems are smart, most tax increases go into effect after 2012. Taxes | U.S. Congressman Paul Ryan

- another good read for those who are concerned about what happens in 2013 and beyond....based on Obama's own budget and CBO estimates.

President Obama: The Biggest Government Spender In World History - Forbes