Arizona's New Immigration Law

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Until such time that we make it unattractive to come to this country illegally....more of the same.
Until such time the Fed has the balls to....get serious about closing our borders and make it unattractive to come here illegally....more of the same.
More lip service and snake oil...more of the same

Why couldn't we make it easier to come, harder to stay. Here's what I mean. Basically, excluding convicted felons and a small portion of truly undesirables, offer 3 year entry permits-that must be renewed yearly- to nearly every Central American. Have a requirement that by year 3 they must show that they have a valid productive job for atleast 18 months, regardless of pay (maybe have a minimum but maybe not). If not then the visa expires, and they can reapply for entry in 5 years, if yes then the visa would be extended to a 5 year visa, and they would be eligible for citizenship at the end of those 5 years. Further restrictions, marriage and childbirth would not be ways to gain automatic citizenship during the first 3 year visa.

This would:
a) live up to the Statue of Liberty
b) offer a way for people to find a better life
c) reduce illegal border entry
d) offer verifiable records for nearly every immigrant.
e) increase the effectiveness of border patrols and customs
f) restrict loopholes for people once they are here legally.

[2BIG2BSKINNY]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Totally understand. I'll apologize for my looking like a redneck idiot to you. lol. I honestly don't know what the answer is and I'm sure thats what the issue is with the feds. Better to put their heads in the sand and not see it then try to tackle it and piss off anyone.

I just don't see how its fair that we, you and I, being born here in America, have the same rights as the illegal who steps across the boarder two min. from now? I especially don't see how its fair that some individuals put their name on a list and actually wait the waiting period, which is like 10 yrs, and are allowed to come into the country legally have no different rights then the illegal who steps across the boarder illegally? What incentive is there to be a good immigrant and follow rules when the rules don't apply to everyone? I know many of legal immigrants who are pissed at the illegals.

On a side note do you care to share your oppinion or perhaps your parents oppinion?

I think that is the point! I am an American citizen as my dad who was allowed in the country being Cuban, since our government does not like Castro! My mother has been here over 40 years and is a nautralized citizen and we are not from Arizona!........but..... since my folks and family and I for that matter speak Spanish and look Hispanic we will be bothered by this law and our rights taken away regardless of how many years here.

This is a discussion... I do not get offended easy...your good!

I do not look like a mexican but look very cuban as some cubans can be very light skin (as I ) and others dark skin who look african american.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I realize this is completely off topic, but are you pissed off that our federal dollars first paid to destroy Germany (firebombing Dresden anyone) and Japan(Hiroshima/firebombing Tokyo) and then paid to rebuild it(40 years of NATO subsidies/SEATO ) how did those work out for the world and for us?
Last I checked we do send a ton of federal money to each of the cities you mentioned, plus every other one in the country.

LOL, that does kinda tick me off. I thought Germany was rebuilt with UN money. Japan might have been a different story. I do get mad that we rebuilt Japan and they surpassed us in electronics. lol.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Yes. Basically your saying that some one who does not live here, has no ties to this country, has not vested in this government, should be able to step off a plane, step onto a beach, cross a boarder, or step off a boat and instantly they are given the same rights as you whom I presume are a citizen?

I'm not picking on one culture. I'm talking Russian, Chineese, African, Scottish, Irish, Canadian. I refering to all illegal immigrants. On a side note how would you feel having 15 to 20 people crossing a river onto your property every night (trespassing)? Maybe stealing your property occassionally? Maybe peeking into your house at night? Maybe stealing a chicken here and there to cook for food? maybe simply just causing your dog to bark between the hours of 1am and 5am waking you up every other night.

Thats not even speaking of the strain illegals are putting on hospitals. They don't have jobs or insurance so the hospitals treat them then have to right off the cost. Gues who pays that? we all do cause the Gov. reimburses the hospital for their cost.

How about when illegals for whatever reason are allowed to have loans for houses and when they can't pay they simply forclose and move on to the next home using a different name? Our banks are hurting due to this issue also. I can tell you I had 3-4 homes in this situation in my neighborhood.

These are just a few issues. There are a whole mess more. What happens the illegals when they become old and need more attention? ie; put in a nursing home, food stamps, retirment? Where will their retirement come from? They are not putting into social security cause they don't have a social security number or green card number.

I'm talking about universal rights protecting them against abuse and discrimination. So again, you're in favor of legal abuse and discrimination?

With the amount of illegals already here, hope you would be ready for a little 'ol social unrest, to put it lightly.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Why couldn't we make it easier to come, harder to stay. Here's what I mean. Basically, excluding convicted felons and a small portion of truly undesirables, offer 3 year entry permits-that must be renewed yearly- to nearly every Central American. Have a requirement that by year 3 they must show that they have a valid productive job for atleast 18 months, regardless of pay (maybe have a minimum but maybe not). If not then the visa expires, and they can reapply for entry in 5 years, if yes then the visa would be extended to a 5 year visa, and they would be eligible for citizenship at the end of those 5 years. Further restrictions, marriage and childbirth would not be ways to gain automatic citizenship during the first 3 year visa.

This would:
a) live up to the Statue of Liberty
b) offer a way for people to find a better life
c) reduce illegal border entry
d) offer verifiable records for nearly every immigrant.
e) increase the effectiveness of border patrols and customs
f) restrict loopholes for people once they are here legally.

I'm all for it. It MUST be unattractive to come here illegally.
If you do you will:
NOT be able to get a job...anywhere
NOT be able to get benefits of ANY kind
Your children born here will NOT be considered US nationals
BE deported...etc
On the flip side, it should be made as easy as possible to immigrate legally.

On an indirect sidetrack...population in this country is going to have to be addressed..that should be fun

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by Hog1

On an indirect sidetrack...population in this country is going to have to be addressed..that should be fun

killing all the Cowboys fans would certainly be a good start.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I'm all for it. It MUST be unattractive to come here illegally.
If you do you will:
NOT be able to get a job...anywhere
NOT be able to get benefits of ANY kind
Your children born here will NOT be considered US nationals
BE deported...etc
On the flip side, it should be made as easy as possible to immigrate legally.

On an indirect sidetrack...population in this country is going to have to be addressed..that should be fun

Ok, so we make it real easy to become a legal citizen and then they become even a bigger burden on the system. From what I read most that come here illegaly are uneducated and thus have a limited means to make a good income. Now that they are legal it is much easier to access federal programs and cost us even moor money. It said the more educated, non violient, etc... are more likely to come here through illegal means. We have to make it somewhat of a long process or all we will get crossing is a bunch of dumb asses who will milk the system. I think we allready have enough of US citizens doing that now.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Ok, so we make it real easy to become a legal citizen and then they become even a bigger burden on the system. From what I read most that come here illegaly are uneducated and thus have a limited means to make a good income. Now that they are legal it is much easier to access federal programs and cost us even moor money. It said the more educated, non violient, etc... are more likely to come here through illegal means. We have to make it somewhat of a long process or all we will get crossing is a bunch of dumb asses who will milk the system. I think we allready have enough of US citizens doing that now.

Umm we already go this kind from England in the 1700's. LOL!!!!!

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Ok, so we make it real easy to become a legal citizen and then they become even a bigger burden on the system. From what I read most that come here illegaly are uneducated and thus have a limited means to make a good income. Now that they are legal it is much easier to access federal programs and cost us even moor money. It said the more educated, non violient, etc... are more likely to come here through illegal means. We have to make it somewhat of a long process or all we will get crossing is a bunch of dumb asses who will milk the system. I think we allready have enough of US citizens doing that now.

my grandparents and father-in-law were uneducated immigrants. they didn't were non-violent and didn't commit crimes and didn't milk the system.

so, lucky for you, i'm here!

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I thought the war was over oil. I guess that was not the case after all.

Funny, I thought the war was over a country snubbing the UN on several occassions and failing to abide by the ruling.

Whether there was or was not WMD's was a side issue. No there was no nukes but they did have long range missles they were not supposed to have pluse nerve agents. So in essence Sadam was in the wrong.

If it was about oil, where is all the free oil we should be reaping the benifits from after taking over the country and fixing the oil wells? I would presume that if it was about oil we would be getting oil at less then advertised cost per barrel. right? since we are in control of it now?

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Why couldn't we make it easier to come, harder to stay. Here's what I mean. Basically, excluding convicted felons and a small portion of truly undesirables, offer 3 year entry permits-that must be renewed yearly- to nearly every Central American. Have a requirement that by year 3 they must show that they have a valid productive job for atleast 18 months, regardless of pay (maybe have a minimum but maybe not). If not then the visa expires, and they can reapply for entry in 5 years, if yes then the visa would be extended to a 5 year visa, and they would be eligible for citizenship at the end of those 5 years. Further restrictions, marriage and childbirth would not be ways to gain automatic citizenship during the first 3 year visa.

This would:
a) live up to the Statue of Liberty
b) offer a way for people to find a better life
c) reduce illegal border entry
d) offer verifiable records for nearly every immigrant.
e) increase the effectiveness of border patrols and customs
f) restrict loopholes for people once they are here legally.

For Dominicans they get same treatment as Cubans.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by 2BIG2BSKINNY

I think that is the point! I am an American citizen as my dad who was allowed in the country being Cuban, since our government does not like Castro! My mother has been here over 40 years and is a nautralized citizen and we are not from Arizona!........but..... since my folks and family and I for that matter speak Spanish and look Hispanic we will be bothered by this law and our rights taken away regardless of how many years here.

This is a discussion... I do not get offended easy...your good!

I do not look like a mexican but look very cuban as some cubans can be very light skin (as I ) and others dark skin who look african american.

As I said prior. I think, with my oppinions only and looking at it as if "illegals" don't have rights, there would be a lot of trampling on honest citizens rights. I agreed with this and even said I could see the "legal" citizens having a legitimate complaint if they are constantly being stopped and questions.

It's hard to make a rule saying all illegal immigrants can be stopped and questioned about status but how do you tell the difference from the legals and illegals. I agree the Arizona law might not be fair or even legal. What I'm refering to though is if and when the police finally determine if someone is illegal, then and only then should they not be treated as an American. I don't think the police should be walking up and down the street asking latino's if they have papers, cause now we would be the Nazis. But if the police find out after a traffic stop or during an arrest then all bets are off.

I just can't see how America can open its boarder and say come one come all. Not everyone would come but I'm betting we would have a flood of immigrants. Everyone knows America is the place to come to for jobs, money, and upward mobility.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I'm talking about universal rights protecting them against abuse and discrimination. So again, you're in favor of legal abuse and discrimination?

With the amount of illegals already here, hope you would be ready for a little 'ol social unrest, to put it lightly.

Abuse? ok that falls under human rights. You can't mistreat them. No physical abuse and no starving.

Discrimination? Harder one to answer. but as long as the gov. treats all illegals the same then there should be no issue.

Again, I agree with the fact that American Latino's would be harrassed and probably bullied. I guess what I'm saying is I could see just like the seat belt laws of virginia, it's not a primary offense its a secondary offense. The police can't pull someone over for not wearing their seatbelt, but if they are breaking another law and get stopped then the police can ticket them for not having their seatbelt on.

I don't agree with the police walking around checking paper on everyone they decide to check, but if the police should happen to pull a car over and while asking for identification they learn the individual is illegal then they should be arrested and shipped back to their country.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

killing all the Cowboys fans would certainly be a good start.

Intersting coming from a Raider fan. Hmmm. I'm beginning to like you more and more.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Ok, so we make it real easy to become a legal citizen and then they become even a bigger burden on the system. From what I read most that come here illegaly are uneducated and thus have a limited means to make a good income. Now that they are legal it is much easier to access federal programs and cost us even moor money. It said the more educated, non violient, etc... are more likely to come here through illegal means. We have to make it somewhat of a long process or all we will get crossing is a bunch of dumb asses who will milk the system. I think we allready have enough of US citizens doing that now.

Let me ask you this, isn't it already a law that legal immigrants have like 10 yrs to become citizens? meaning taking the big test or they are shipped back to their country?